Naturopathic Healing: Beyond Conventional Care

[00:00:00] Imagine a form of healthcare that is entirely focused on the patient.

[00:00:04] Where the first goal of treatment is to do no harm.

[00:00:07] Where safe and natural therapies are used to tap into nature's incredible healing power

[00:00:13] and practitioners are focused on getting to the root of what's really going on with your health.

[00:00:18] Where the doctor functions as a guide and mentor, treating you as a whole person, body, mind and spirit.

[00:00:24] While also teaching you practical tips on how to prevent health issues through lifestyle adjustments and natural therapies.

[00:00:39] You're listening to Take On Healthcare with Ted Suzelis and Mary Sheehan.

[00:00:43] Ted is a naturopathic doctor who has been helping people in Northeast Ohio for over 20 years

[00:00:48] to live a happier and healthier life through natural healthcare,

[00:00:52] including dietary advice, vitamins, herbs and other natural substances.

[00:00:57] Mary is a full-time pharmacist who also helps leaders in healthcare suffering with anxiety and depression

[00:01:03] integrate the best parts of traditional and alternative medicine.

[00:01:06] Have you ever wondered about natural medicine, but aren't sure where to begin?

[00:01:10] There is a lot of confusion around alternative medicine. We can help.

[00:01:15] In today's podcast we break down the basics of naturopathic medicine,

[00:01:19] how it differs from other forms of alternative medicine

[00:01:22] and how you can find a qualified practitioner.

[00:01:28] I sometimes wonder what it would be like in this country if we didn't have to explain to people

[00:01:32] what naturopathic medicine is because everybody already knew

[00:01:36] because that was the main form of medicine.

[00:01:39] The system was a naturopathic medicine system,

[00:01:42] and then I'm like, well, that would be fun.

[00:01:44] Then we'd have doctors on explaining things like prescription medication

[00:01:48] and surgeries and things like that, but we don't live in that world.

[00:01:51] We live in this world where the dominant system is allopathic medicine.

[00:01:56] I guess that gives us the opportunity to come together

[00:02:00] and talk about naturopathic medicine.

[00:02:04] Wouldn't that be crazy if we had to then explain to somebody

[00:02:10] why they need to get a whole colonoscopy? They've never heard about that before.

[00:02:13] We're going to shove up a camera up there, but get a colonoscopy.

[00:02:17] Yes, and the MDs and the DOs are on the fringe.

[00:02:20] Wouldn't that be weird?

[00:02:22] That would be weird.

[00:02:23] I love to think about stuff like that.

[00:02:24] Like if the world was upside down, I blame Stranger Things.

[00:02:27] I mean, I feel like it is upside down at this point

[00:02:30] because the dominant medicine of the day

[00:02:33] before allopathic medicine took over was in fact natural medicine.

[00:02:38] We are in the upside down.

[00:02:40] Yes.

[00:02:41] We're already in the upside down.

[00:02:42] Except I don't have as many psychic powers as I want.

[00:02:44] Yeah, well, yeah, that's a whole different topic.

[00:02:48] All right, so then I would like to, on that note,

[00:02:54] because the systems are so different.

[00:02:56] I'd like one of you guys to explain the body as a whole

[00:03:00] because in our current dominant allopathic system,

[00:03:03] we kind of tend to view the body not as it is in reality.

[00:03:06] Like you need a heart doctor and a bone doctor

[00:03:09] and an endocrinologist as if the systems are not connected.

[00:03:14] And I feel like people know intuitively that the systems are connected,

[00:03:18] at least pharmacists do because chemistry kind of goes everywhere.

[00:03:21] But the allopathic system tends to separate things out.

[00:03:24] So I think body as a whole is something good to remind the people about.

[00:03:27] Sure.

[00:03:28] And the body as a whole really, I mean, there are separate components,

[00:03:33] but they do have like a nature that all works together.

[00:03:36] So you have the physical body, which yes has those different parts

[00:03:40] of that heart and brain and lungs and endocrine organs

[00:03:44] and digestive system and muscles and fascia and all that kind of fun stuff.

[00:03:50] And there's a lot of things we can do to kind of work on those parts of the body.

[00:03:55] But like you said, even pharmacists knowing that they're connected by chemistry,

[00:04:01] they are physically connected.

[00:04:04] If you look at fascia, I mean the whole fascia system is totally fascinating.

[00:04:07] We don't look at fascia in our system.

[00:04:09] Right.

[00:04:10] But you know, that's the beauty of naturopathic medicine is that we do look at things like the fascia.

[00:04:16] And I think that there are more clinical research studies coming out and different things showing that

[00:04:23] oh, there is some validity to the fact that if you have a pain in the back of your neck,

[00:04:27] you might actually have something going on with your foot.

[00:04:30] That's outrageous.

[00:04:31] Dr O'Connor.

[00:04:32] So but I think you need then just to find fascia for us because again,

[00:04:37] like even, okay, I'm a pharmacist and I don't really,

[00:04:40] I kind of know what that is but because we don't work with it

[00:04:44] and we didn't learn about it in school.

[00:04:46] Right.

[00:04:47] How was that?

[00:04:48] Yeah, so fascia is basically, it's the envelope within an envelope

[00:04:52] within an envelope of connective tissue.

[00:04:55] Kind of like this is a little bit graphic,

[00:04:57] but when you're, let's say you're pulling apart a chicken,

[00:04:59] when you peel that meat away, you see the thin layers in between.

[00:05:03] Well, we have that too.

[00:05:05] Through the whole body.

[00:05:06] Through the whole body and it kind of roots down.

[00:05:09] It's called the root of the mesentery where your,

[00:05:12] your guts are connected to your spine basically,

[00:05:15] your spinal column, your bones and everything.

[00:05:18] But all that stuff, it all comes out from when you're formed in the womb.

[00:05:23] You start as a little tube and then you go bloop, bloop,

[00:05:25] and you come apart into all these different envelopes.

[00:05:28] So all the parts are connected.

[00:05:30] They're all connected physically.

[00:05:31] Physically connected.

[00:05:32] Sounds like most people know that.

[00:05:34] I know. It's wild.

[00:05:35] It is.

[00:05:36] So, you know, you cut or injure any little part of that

[00:05:39] and it sends some level of signal throughout the body

[00:05:42] that things need to change or be healed,

[00:05:45] which is a really great, you know,

[00:05:47] part of the naturopathic understanding of the body healing itself

[00:05:51] and that does send signals that way.

[00:05:53] And that's part of that whole physical body.

[00:05:56] But part of the physical body too is the spiritual body,

[00:06:01] you know, the soul, the mind,

[00:06:03] everything that goes on that we're thinking about

[00:06:06] and feeling of how we connect with other people.

[00:06:09] Community is incredibly important.

[00:06:12] You know, when I work with my patients,

[00:06:14] a lot of times it's like,

[00:06:15] okay, we've talked about the physical.

[00:06:17] What's going on in your life?

[00:06:19] How are you connecting to your kids

[00:06:21] or your wife or your husband or your family?

[00:06:23] Or, you know, if somebody lives alone,

[00:06:26] like how do you go out into the world

[00:06:28] and speak to others?

[00:06:29] Do you help others?

[00:06:30] You know, and so there's like a lot of things

[00:06:33] we can go off of with that,

[00:06:35] the spiritual, mental, emotional body

[00:06:38] and those things are connected.

[00:06:40] The reason why the placebo effect has to be beat

[00:06:43] in clinical trials or in drug trials

[00:06:46] is because it's 40%,

[00:06:48] at least 40% effective.

[00:06:50] That's really effective.

[00:06:51] So, you know, so saying the placebo effect,

[00:06:54] people go and they dismiss it.

[00:06:56] Oh, it's so great, the placebo response.

[00:06:59] I take advantage of it all the time in the pharmacy.

[00:07:01] You shouldn't, the heart is that.

[00:07:03] And we're just throwing pills and bottles at people

[00:07:05] and say good luck to you.

[00:07:06] Like, no, let's take a moment to say

[00:07:08] what a miracle this chemistry is.

[00:07:10] And it's going to do wonderful things for you

[00:07:12] and you're going to do your part,

[00:07:13] it's going to do its part.

[00:07:14] Yeah, I love the placebo response.

[00:07:17] Well, speaking of, you did mention

[00:07:19] that the body can heal itself.

[00:07:21] I would like,

[00:07:23] I would like some evidence for that.

[00:07:25] Yeah, so I love to talk about this topic

[00:07:28] because so many of the detractors

[00:07:31] of naturopathic medicine,

[00:07:33] when they're talking about naturopathic medicine

[00:07:36] and trying to show why it's not valid,

[00:07:38] they talk about our principle of healing,

[00:07:41] the healing power of nature.

[00:07:43] And we being nature, humans being nature.

[00:07:45] Right, right.

[00:07:46] And they say it in a way that

[00:07:48] naturopathic doctors, we believe

[00:07:50] in some kind of pagan witchcraft

[00:07:52] that this is just some kind of magic

[00:07:55] that we try to use to heal the body.

[00:07:58] When in fact...

[00:07:59] That only you have access to, apparently.

[00:08:01] Exactly, right.

[00:08:02] The wizard.

[00:08:03] Yes.

[00:08:04] Naturopath is wizard.

[00:08:05] Yeah.

[00:08:06] But really the healing power of nature

[00:08:08] is a very simple concept.

[00:08:11] It's innate.

[00:08:12] Yes, it's our bodies have the ability

[00:08:14] to heal themselves when we give

[00:08:16] the proper nutrients and environment.

[00:08:18] So I like to joke with about

[00:08:21] MDs and sometimes actually use

[00:08:24] the healing power of nature more than we do.

[00:08:27] Because say you break your arm,

[00:08:30] you fall and break your arm, what do you do?

[00:08:32] First thing you do, you go to the ER,

[00:08:34] you get an x-ray, and if the arm is broken,

[00:08:37] they put you in a cast,

[00:08:39] make sure that the bones are aligned

[00:08:41] and let you go on your way

[00:08:43] and let the healing power of nature take over

[00:08:45] because your bones are meant to heal themselves.

[00:08:49] So...

[00:08:50] Imagine.

[00:08:51] Right, imagine that.

[00:08:52] But that is really interesting.

[00:08:55] Yeah.

[00:08:56] Because imagine then if, okay,

[00:08:58] somebody sets my leg and then I say,

[00:09:01] well what are you going to do to heal it?

[00:09:03] And the emergency room doctors

[00:09:05] as the body will heal itself

[00:09:06] and then someone says,

[00:09:07] that's an outrage.

[00:09:08] The body doesn't heal itself.

[00:09:10] You're right, they do.

[00:09:11] Right.

[00:09:12] They do say it.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] So it's interesting.

[00:09:15] It's not that they don't...

[00:09:16] like an individual doctor,

[00:09:18] traditionally trained doctor,

[00:09:20] doesn't know that.

[00:09:21] It's just not part of their system.

[00:09:23] Right.

[00:09:24] They don't bring it into other facets,

[00:09:26] like a naturopathic doctor does.

[00:09:27] Right.

[00:09:28] And...

[00:09:29] That's such a great example.

[00:09:30] And it's just about...

[00:09:31] really it's about defining it properly.

[00:09:33] And...

[00:09:34] But when we look at naturopathic medicine,

[00:09:36] if that same person breaks their arm,

[00:09:40] we're going to do more probably

[00:09:43] to support the body in that process.

[00:09:46] We want to make sure

[00:09:47] that they're getting enough calcium

[00:09:48] and magnesium and vitamin D and vitamin K,

[00:09:51] boron, silica, all of these different nutrients

[00:09:54] to make sure that that bone can optimally heal.

[00:09:57] So like I said,

[00:09:59] sometimes the medical doctors

[00:10:01] rely on that more than us.

[00:10:03] And another good example is

[00:10:05] somebody gets a virus.

[00:10:07] And...

[00:10:08] They get a Z-PAC.

[00:10:09] I see it every day.

[00:10:10] Z-PAC or another antibiotic.

[00:10:11] Makes no sense.

[00:10:12] And a steroid.

[00:10:13] Oh yeah, steroids all the time now.

[00:10:14] Yeah.

[00:10:15] Neither of those is going to actually...

[00:10:16] For a virus.

[00:10:17] You know, heal that virus.

[00:10:19] Correct.

[00:10:20] The antibiotic will...

[00:10:22] A lot of times the antibiotics

[00:10:23] will have some anti-inflammatory effects.

[00:10:25] So they'll get some benefits there.

[00:10:27] But it won't kill the virus.

[00:10:28] But it also might make sure

[00:10:30] that they don't get a secondary

[00:10:32] bacterial infection.

[00:10:34] And then when you...

[00:10:35] The steroid, it suppresses your immune system

[00:10:37] so that it's not overacting

[00:10:38] so that your body

[00:10:40] can take over and heal that virus.

[00:10:44] Interesting.

[00:10:45] Okay, I never really thought about it that way.

[00:10:48] So you're saying the steroid...

[00:10:50] You did say the steroid suppresses

[00:10:52] the immune system.

[00:10:53] Like I always thought that would be

[00:10:54] a bad thing then.

[00:10:55] Well, it calms it down.

[00:10:57] So like during COVID...

[00:10:59] Yes.

[00:11:00] With that...

[00:11:01] Good example.

[00:11:02] Yeah, with that whole cascade of symptoms

[00:11:04] that would happen.

[00:11:06] The steroid could calm down

[00:11:08] that cascade so that the body

[00:11:11] isn't moving out of control

[00:11:13] and could actually heal the infection.

[00:11:16] Okay, and we are going to talk about suppression

[00:11:18] which is like my favorite topic

[00:11:19] so I won't get too far ahead of that.

[00:11:22] But I also want to go back to

[00:11:24] the dominant system

[00:11:26] not emphasizing prevention.

[00:11:28] Early detection, yes.

[00:11:30] But in some instances but not prevention.

[00:11:33] When I think of preventing disease

[00:11:36] I often think of naturopathic medicine.

[00:11:38] There's...

[00:11:39] Again it's a systems problem.

[00:11:40] So let's talk about...

[00:11:42] Yeah.

[00:11:43] Prevention.

[00:11:44] Sure, so with prevention

[00:11:46] and the way I look at prevention

[00:11:48] I think other naturopathic doctors

[00:11:50] look at prevention.

[00:11:51] In a way it's kind of like

[00:11:54] you're almost ensuring that

[00:11:56] your personal business model

[00:11:59] is going to be diminished somewhat

[00:12:01] because you're trying to keep

[00:12:02] your patients out of your office in a way.

[00:12:04] Because the whole point

[00:12:07] of prevention is so that a person

[00:12:10] let's say it's a mom

[00:12:12] that mom is going to know how to take care of herself

[00:12:15] she's going to know how to feed her body

[00:12:17] and exercise and sleep

[00:12:19] and get clean water

[00:12:21] and get a spiritual practice

[00:12:23] or a community practice

[00:12:25] or something where she's filling her cup

[00:12:27] and replenishing what her body needs

[00:12:30] so that she can take care of her little kids

[00:12:32] train them on how to do the same thing

[00:12:35] to take care of themselves and prevent disease

[00:12:38] and she's going to help her husband

[00:12:40] depending on the roles in the household

[00:12:43] that varies but

[00:12:45] maybe she shows him recipes how to cook

[00:12:48] so that when she's doing this he can cook

[00:12:50] or vice versa.

[00:12:51] That gives me chills.

[00:12:53] It feels so true

[00:12:56] like the woman as

[00:12:58] in charge of the medicine

[00:13:00] food being medicine in charge of the well-being

[00:13:02] of the household

[00:13:03] and even like in my practice

[00:13:06] I would tell the people

[00:13:08] especially during the unprecedented times

[00:13:11] if all of the women just left America

[00:13:13] the men would be dead in six months

[00:13:15] and they would laugh because they knew

[00:13:17] like they knew what prescriptions their husbands were on

[00:13:20] but the way you say it is so beautiful

[00:13:22] it's like you as the naturopathic doctor

[00:13:25] guiding her or him it doesn't really matter

[00:13:27] but the guiding and the education

[00:13:29] and making sure she's well

[00:13:32] it's just really so beautiful

[00:13:34] and then that person is taking care of her

[00:13:37] nurturing.

[00:13:38] Oh I love that.

[00:13:40] There's obviously definitely different roles

[00:13:43] depending on the family unit

[00:13:45] or how they want to operate which is totally fine

[00:13:47] because I've definitely taught men how to nurture

[00:13:50] and like care for their families

[00:13:52] because they took on more of that role

[00:13:54] but I do find in practice that I do see more

[00:13:56] moms that tend to

[00:13:58] nurture and

[00:14:00] you know they build up the home

[00:14:02] they might even still be working like a full-time job

[00:14:04] and they're fasting their butts

[00:14:06] just like trying to keep their family

[00:14:08] from getting sick because that affects them as well

[00:14:11] and then they stay home with the kids

[00:14:13] and you know whatever the case may be

[00:14:15] but just seeing people

[00:14:17] working on

[00:14:19] the general level of prevention

[00:14:21] for disease for their families

[00:14:23] it's really really

[00:14:25] it's cool.

[00:14:26] It is and it's so fundamental

[00:14:28] right and that's what I did when my kids were little

[00:14:31] like I made sure that we had

[00:14:33] kind of the basics covered but people weren't really

[00:14:35] talking about it like that.

[00:14:37] I just knew that that's what needed to happen.

[00:14:39] Yeah and sorry

[00:14:41] and with that same kind of vein

[00:14:43] prevention is really making sure

[00:14:45] that the pillars of health are being supported

[00:14:48] and maintained so that

[00:14:50] because when the body is

[00:14:52] well supported it will not

[00:14:54] have let's take cancer for example

[00:14:57] I mean we have childhood cancers

[00:14:59] and all kinds of other things

[00:15:00] and a lot of that can be attributed

[00:15:02] environmental and stress and like

[00:15:04] maternal environment but

[00:15:06] setting those things aside a little bit

[00:15:08] somebody who's fairly healthy

[00:15:10] if they maintain you know good nutrition

[00:15:12] they're not eating processed junk

[00:15:14] they're not eating excess calories

[00:15:16] excess sugar

[00:15:17] they're exercising even moderately

[00:15:19] they're getting plenty of water

[00:15:21] plenty of sleep

[00:15:22] and they have a good community

[00:15:24] you know built up for themselves

[00:15:26] and they have interaction with other people

[00:15:28] those people their immune systems

[00:15:30] work really well to get rid of cancer cells

[00:15:33] because cancer everybody has a little bit of cancer

[00:15:35] yeah all the time right all the time

[00:15:37] and so but your immune system

[00:15:39] goes oh that's cancer let's get rid of it

[00:15:42] but when you start breaking down those pillars

[00:15:44] then the body is like

[00:15:46] tired of dealing with this

[00:15:48] and then it just

[00:15:50] yeah lets it go

[00:15:52] Right and when we're talking about that too

[00:15:54] we're not talking about prevention

[00:15:56] as a way to totally eliminate your risks

[00:15:59] No

[00:16:00] because some risk factors

[00:16:02] are stronger than others

[00:16:04] we have certain genetic risks for

[00:16:06] say certain cancers

[00:16:08] and you're not going to be fully able

[00:16:10] to get rid of those risks

[00:16:12] but we want to do what we have

[00:16:14] take control as much as we can

[00:16:16] to help eliminate

[00:16:18] and minimize those risks as much as possible

[00:16:20] That's right

[00:16:21] and I think people don't even realize they can

[00:16:24] That's why I love about what you just said

[00:16:26] like they don't even think about it like that

[00:16:28] like there are things I can control

[00:16:31] and they're basic things

[00:16:33] and we're just kind of so caught up

[00:16:35] in chasing around the disease

[00:16:37] and the stress

[00:16:39] we don't even think about building the solid foundation

[00:16:42] of our families

[00:16:44] which is the most important unit

[00:16:46] we just don't even think about it

[00:16:48] Yeah, there's something like I said

[00:16:50] there's certain things we have a lot more control over

[00:16:52] So

[00:16:53] Control what you can

[00:16:54] Type 2 diabetes

[00:16:56] it's a lifestyle disease

[00:16:58] for 99% of people

[00:17:00] and I'm making up that statistic but

[00:17:02] You're not far off though I don't think

[00:17:04] But

[00:17:05] if you keep a healthy weight

[00:17:07] eat healthfully

[00:17:09] and exercise

[00:17:11] your risk for getting type 2 diabetes

[00:17:13] is very low

[00:17:15] Right and that is actually a way to reverse it

[00:17:18] Right

[00:17:19] because I've had so many diabetic patients

[00:17:22] who say

[00:17:24] you're really telling me I can reverse this

[00:17:27] Okay, why is that a shock to them?

[00:17:29] This is what I tend to love to talk about

[00:17:32] systems

[00:17:33] Because it's kind of like this kind of

[00:17:35] marketing brainwashing thing has happened

[00:17:38] I don't think it's natural for us to

[00:17:40] have thoughts that were helpless

[00:17:43] that things are hopeless

[00:17:45] that there's nothing I can do

[00:17:47] Right, so

[00:17:48] what I find is a lot of

[00:17:50] a lot of the doctors

[00:17:52] the

[00:17:53] whether it's a primary care or an endocrinologist

[00:17:56] that's in the kind of American Medical Association

[00:17:59] bracket of things

[00:18:01] while they mean well I think they don't

[00:18:03] they don't

[00:18:04] I think that they don't trust patients

[00:18:07] to make changes and that is commonly what I see

[00:18:10] because I have an example of a patient that I have

[00:18:13] who they see

[00:18:15] they're a little bit older

[00:18:17] closer to 70

[00:18:18] they've had type 2 diabetes for quite some time

[00:18:21] when I took over this patient's care

[00:18:24] they still see their primary care

[00:18:27] they're on Medicare so they have to do that

[00:18:30] which is fine

[00:18:31] but I've given this patient many

[00:18:33] things to say to their

[00:18:35] primary care to say like

[00:18:37] look I want to do this

[00:18:39] I'm trying to do time restricted feeding

[00:18:42] which a lot of people call intermittent fasting

[00:18:44] but they're working on that

[00:18:46] and they're doing a good job

[00:18:48] and they're like look I need to come down off these medications

[00:18:51] and in the state of Oregon

[00:18:53] I'm allowed to take this patient's medications down

[00:18:55] so that is something that I work with them on directly

[00:18:58] but they get very confused because their primary care says

[00:19:02] no you need to keep taking these insulin medications

[00:19:06] and they're like don't do that because when you're fasting

[00:19:08] you're going to die

[00:19:09] if you take too much

[00:19:11] and there's no one around to help you

[00:19:13] you're done

[00:19:14] that's interesting

[00:19:16] you're saying that there's a disconnect

[00:19:18] the physicians have a distrust of the patient

[00:19:21] and that is so interesting to me

[00:19:23] because it goes to the nature of the relationship

[00:19:25] the very nature of the relationship

[00:19:27] is one of I tell you what to do

[00:19:30] and you listen

[00:19:31] and like a belligerent child you probably won't

[00:19:34] I'm going to have to do this, this and this

[00:19:36] then we kind of have this kind of dance

[00:19:39] which to me is not sacred

[00:19:42] it's not

[00:19:43] but healthy for anybody

[00:19:45] I will say at least for everyone who's heard that first part of the story

[00:19:48] this patient has come down off of most of their medications

[00:19:52] they've lost that middle section body fat

[00:19:56] that increases risk for heart disease and everything else

[00:20:00] they feel better

[00:20:01] when I first started seeing this patient

[00:20:03] a couple years ago

[00:20:05] they were very cognitively all over the place

[00:20:09] couldn't really follow what I was saying

[00:20:11] had very difficult time answering questions

[00:20:15] and now they're sharp

[00:20:17] just super sharp

[00:20:18] and doing great

[00:20:19] and feeling better

[00:20:20] and then they ended up bringing one of their daughters in

[00:20:23] to see me

[00:20:24] and now I'm helping her too

[00:20:25] I think that's interesting too

[00:20:27] about the mind-body connection

[00:20:28] like if your body feels really bad

[00:20:30] it's hard for you to be mentally sharp

[00:20:32] so then I sit here and wonder

[00:20:34] the traditional system with all the medications

[00:20:36] and the side effects

[00:20:37] and the no guidance for the foundational pieces of health

[00:20:40] make people a little goofy mentally

[00:20:43] and so it's no wonder the doctors don't trust them

[00:20:46] because wow, it's an vicious cycle

[00:20:49] and my perspective I think is a little bit different

[00:20:52] I don't know that at least

[00:20:54] I'm looking here in Ohio versus Oregon or Arizona

[00:20:58] where from what I see from the medical doctors

[00:21:01] it's not even that they don't trust their patients

[00:21:05] as much as they don't believe that anything else will work

[00:21:08] that is also true

[00:21:10] they have their paradigm

[00:21:12] and look at health as like a mechanic works on a car

[00:21:17] and so things just naturally go bad

[00:21:20] and you have to either replace them

[00:21:22] or get some duct tape out to fix it up

[00:21:26] just to keep somebody going

[00:21:28] Match is perfect

[00:21:30] but that is so interesting though too

[00:21:32] so it's not that they don't trust them

[00:21:34] they're just like well they got sucked into something

[00:21:36] but that's trust though too

[00:21:38] and in a way like okay so the patient comes to the MD

[00:21:40] with a plan that involves some things

[00:21:42] that they're not familiar with

[00:21:44] and they don't even think it's gonna work

[00:21:46] to me that's like a breakdown of the relationship as well

[00:21:48] right but I guess on the other side of that too

[00:21:51] is when most people

[00:21:53] when they're doing natural medicine

[00:21:55] are doing it all on their own

[00:21:57] or through influencers online

[00:21:59] or things like the health food store

[00:22:01] and so most of what these doctors see

[00:22:04] is people are doing natural medicine therapies

[00:22:06] and they're not helping

[00:22:08] so these people are wasting their money

[00:22:10] I got you

[00:22:12] because in Ohio there's not a lot of naturopathic doctors

[00:22:16] so the assumption of course would be

[00:22:18] that's where they're getting this stuff

[00:22:21] instead of like no I'm also

[00:22:23] I love you MD

[00:22:24] I need you for whatever reason insurance or whatever

[00:22:26] and for medications

[00:22:28] collaborating

[00:22:30] but if they don't even

[00:22:32] because most I think MDs in Ohio

[00:22:34] don't even know about naturopathic doctors

[00:22:36] what the education is

[00:22:38] that's what I'm learning just visiting

[00:22:40] that's hard for the patient

[00:22:43] it's hard for everybody really

[00:22:45] but I think about the poor patient

[00:22:47] who's really trying it doesn't want

[00:22:49] to visit to the MD to be a confrontation

[00:22:52] and that brings up something

[00:22:54] I see with a lot of patients

[00:22:56] here I need to make sure that my patients

[00:22:58] have a primary care doctor because

[00:23:00] you can't be it

[00:23:01] no I can't be their primary care

[00:23:03] and it's funny because

[00:23:05] some of these patients they start doing well

[00:23:08] but I'm making sure they go back

[00:23:10] to their medical doctor to get certain testing

[00:23:12] and things and the doctor kind of feels used

[00:23:15] it's like well I'm doing this

[00:23:17] testing and everything but you don't want my drugs

[00:23:19] so what's my purpose here

[00:23:21] hmm

[00:23:23] yeah

[00:23:25] I went to school

[00:23:27] because they don't get the whole thing

[00:23:29] they don't want to be just the person who writes for the tests

[00:23:31] I mean not to minimize what they do

[00:23:33] no like absolutely

[00:23:35] a great MD or DO

[00:23:37] they're great

[00:23:39] and I've worked with many that have been amazing

[00:23:41] same here and you have some here

[00:23:43] that are all on board

[00:23:45] and they see the changes in the patient

[00:23:47] and they're willing to do what they need to do

[00:23:49] but others it's

[00:23:51] I don't know how much of it is the ego thing

[00:23:53] and the other part is they just

[00:23:55] don't understand how

[00:23:57] we all need to be working together

[00:23:59] and they think that it really is

[00:24:01] a one or the other

[00:24:03] or it's us against them and it's not

[00:24:05] it's us for the patients together

[00:24:07] always should be

[00:24:09] patient first

[00:24:11] so the next principle

[00:24:13] patient first

[00:24:15] is that one of your principles I don't think it is

[00:24:17] but it is in a way no not really not in those words

[00:24:19] but

[00:24:21] the principles are patient first

[00:24:23] they're both fundamentally

[00:24:25] foundationally they are

[00:24:27] centric your patient centric

[00:24:29] where are we Ted

[00:24:31] where are we oh we went into so many things

[00:24:35] naturopathic medicine takes into account

[00:24:37] the physical mental emotional genetic

[00:24:39] environmental and social factors which Dr. O'Connell did

[00:24:41] touch on

[00:24:43] and then we were going to go from

[00:24:45] there

[00:24:47] Dr. Ted

[00:24:49] to suppression

[00:24:51] is this where you want to talk about

[00:24:53] like let's talk

[00:24:55] about when a patient presents with an illness

[00:24:57] because we did spend a lot of time like on prevention

[00:24:59] so now patient comes

[00:25:01] and they present with an illness

[00:25:03] maybe they have an MD

[00:25:05] they probably do if they have an illness a diagnosis

[00:25:07] what would be

[00:25:09] the approach because an MD's

[00:25:11] approach would be let's diagnose

[00:25:13] get the pills get the surgery

[00:25:15] monitor right so

[00:25:17] when I come in

[00:25:19] when a patient comes into my office and does a consult

[00:25:21] no matter whether

[00:25:23] they're coming in

[00:25:25] because they've already been diagnosed with the disease

[00:25:27] or just regular

[00:25:29] basic health care

[00:25:31] I'm approaching my visit the same

[00:25:33] I want to go

[00:25:35] I first go through

[00:25:37] and talk about

[00:25:39] everything that they feel is important

[00:25:41] about their health that's going wrong

[00:25:43] and we talk about that and tease out those

[00:25:45] details to get a better picture

[00:25:47] of what's really going on

[00:25:49] if they do have a diagnosis obviously

[00:25:51] we talk about the medications that they're taking

[00:25:53] and

[00:25:55] but either way we're putting to get

[00:25:57] we're trying to understand the whole body

[00:25:59] and not just

[00:26:01] not just trying to put a

[00:26:03] band-aid on the problem

[00:26:05] and evaluate what are the underlying

[00:26:07] issues

[00:26:09] that are causing this person's

[00:26:11] disease

[00:26:13] and making their body out of balance

[00:26:15] so

[00:26:17] with that

[00:26:19] we have to really look at a lot of these different

[00:26:21] factors

[00:26:23] whether it's your physical health

[00:26:25] factors

[00:26:27] mental and emotional health I mean

[00:26:29] obviously some patients

[00:26:31] because of physical traumas

[00:26:33] mental traumas

[00:26:35] will exhibit physical symptoms

[00:26:37] we there's lots

[00:26:39] of genetic issues and

[00:26:41] that's an area where over the next

[00:26:43] several decades we're going to see

[00:26:45] a lot more information

[00:26:47] not only from the conventional

[00:26:49] end but also from

[00:26:51] the nature path again on

[00:26:53] where there are

[00:26:55] certain people have different nutrient deficiencies

[00:26:57] that need to be

[00:26:59] addressed and given more of certain

[00:27:01] vitamins or minerals or other

[00:27:03] supplements to help their body

[00:27:05] to get more

[00:27:07] normalized and whatever normal is for them

[00:27:09] right so it's not like you're saying

[00:27:11] I'm giving this vitamin to treat this

[00:27:13] disease no doesn't work that way

[00:27:15] that's green alopathy right

[00:27:17] that's a thing yeah oh yeah

[00:27:19] so that's great

[00:27:21] so green alopathy is really

[00:27:23] no idea yeah so it's basically

[00:27:25] it's going about

[00:27:27] and using natural

[00:27:29] therapies in

[00:27:31] an allopathic way so

[00:27:33] somebody has a depression

[00:27:35] and they're on

[00:27:37] Zoloft so I'm going

[00:27:39] to take them off Zoloft and put them on

[00:27:41] St. John's Ward so that is

[00:27:43] green alopathy where

[00:27:45] you're doing a much more

[00:27:47] natural remedy

[00:27:49] much lower side effects

[00:27:51] but it's still just covering the symptoms

[00:27:53] then what would you do as a nature path

[00:27:55] I think that's a great example that many

[00:27:57] people can relate to yeah sometimes

[00:27:59] sometimes we need green alopathy

[00:28:01] sure you that's in your

[00:28:03] that's in your

[00:28:05] tool box it's okay to bridge

[00:28:07] the gap between long-term

[00:28:09] I love that right because

[00:28:11] it should be a bridge and not a destination

[00:28:13] for the most part yeah okay

[00:28:15] some patients just aren't there either

[00:28:17] sure somebody who's older

[00:28:19] they've developed high blood pressure

[00:28:21] they need some kind of

[00:28:23] therapy whether it's

[00:28:25] herbal or drug based

[00:28:27] to keep their blood pressure

[00:28:29] under control so they don't have a stroke

[00:28:31] sure yeah and

[00:28:33] if this patient isn't

[00:28:35] in a place where they can

[00:28:37] put all of the effort into

[00:28:39] really heal to be able to reverse that

[00:28:41] well then they're going to need to be on

[00:28:43] something just to keep their blood pressure down

[00:28:45] for the rest of their life makes so much sense

[00:28:47] so so yeah we

[00:28:49] work with that but as far as a naturopathic

[00:28:51] doctor yes we will

[00:28:53] probably give

[00:28:55] certain nutrients

[00:28:57] different things for that depression

[00:28:59] to help get them better although

[00:29:01] for me

[00:29:03] here in Ohio we tend to

[00:29:05] we can't just tell somebody to go off their medication

[00:29:07] so we have to

[00:29:09] I love that in a lot of ways because

[00:29:11] I feel like

[00:29:13] every naturopathic doctor should have to

[00:29:15] practice in an unlicensed state because it

[00:29:17] really forces you

[00:29:19] to focus on that basic naturopathic medicine

[00:29:21] wow that's a bold statement

[00:29:23] yeah because

[00:29:25] if you are in a state

[00:29:27] that licenses naturopathic medicine

[00:29:29] you do have a lot more

[00:29:31] higher interventional

[00:29:33] tools that

[00:29:35] maybe is a crutch for you

[00:29:37] yeah I get that

[00:29:39] because again because the system that surrounds you

[00:29:41] you too are impacted by your environment

[00:29:43] just like I'm impacted by my environment

[00:29:45] I think that's really interesting

[00:29:47] what's funny to me

[00:29:49] not funny haha but you know about the

[00:29:51] the whole like with the depression

[00:29:53] and someone who's on zoloft or whatever

[00:29:55] the case may be even in Oregon

[00:29:57] where I have full rights

[00:29:59] of prescribing and everything

[00:30:01] when I have a patient come in who does have

[00:30:03] depression and they're on maybe one

[00:30:05] or two medications SSRI

[00:30:07] or whatever the case may be I don't take them

[00:30:09] off the medications I start with hey

[00:30:11] let's figure out

[00:30:13] what's going on under the surface that

[00:30:15] pillars of health thing nutrition being some

[00:30:17] of the I mean nutrition

[00:30:19] getting somebody to have a nutrition

[00:30:21] plan that works well for them as

[00:30:23] a person that they can adapt to

[00:30:25] and implement in their life in their family's

[00:30:27] life a lot of times they're like

[00:30:29] I feel ready to come off this medication

[00:30:31] what do you think

[00:30:33] yeah because rarely does that

[00:30:35] antidepressant make them

[00:30:37] feel fully normal

[00:30:39] there's always some cost

[00:30:41] there's a tradeoff right

[00:30:43] not just a tradeoff in symptoms

[00:30:45] or you know things but also

[00:30:47] never fully gets

[00:30:49] rid of the symptom right well that's yes

[00:30:51] I know okay you're saying it so they

[00:30:53] still don't feel great

[00:30:55] depression and anxiety even on

[00:30:57] the highest dose of that medication

[00:30:59] because I was thinking about it like yeah

[00:31:01] I there's no lows

[00:31:03] but there's no highs right so they're

[00:31:05] kind of like in this kind of numb could

[00:31:07] possibly be for some people in it like a numbed

[00:31:09] out state and that would be the price

[00:31:11] that's more often what I see me too

[00:31:13] pharmacy like so the price you pay

[00:31:15] for not being

[00:31:17] depressed is that you don't get

[00:31:19] to feel joy yeah

[00:31:21] there's also a lot of sexual side effects

[00:31:23] because of the neuro long with joy

[00:31:25] right exactly

[00:31:27] you know the and that's why SSRIs

[00:31:29] can be used for nerve pain because

[00:31:31] it dulls the sensation of the nerves

[00:31:33] right I think a lot of people

[00:31:35] don't really think about that or know that

[00:31:37] information I've told lots of patients like

[00:31:39] hey you know I'm not telling

[00:31:41] you to stop taking this medication yet

[00:31:43] because you're not there yet or whatever

[00:31:45] case is but but you know

[00:31:47] this is what is probably

[00:31:49] contributing to

[00:31:51] your sexual side effects your lack of joy

[00:31:53] or lack of motivation

[00:31:55] you know so let's

[00:31:57] work on these things underneath then

[00:31:59] we'll get you off this medication then

[00:32:01] you'll feel better than it'll compound on itself

[00:32:03] I had a once way back

[00:32:05] when I first started in community pharmacy

[00:32:07] a young kid came in and for some

[00:32:09] reason people would just tell me things that

[00:32:11] I think are relevant his first

[00:32:13] dose of an antidepressant what did the doctor

[00:32:15] tell you nothing

[00:32:17] and I'm like why do you think you're depressed

[00:32:19] I absolutely hate my job

[00:32:21] so wow like you guys would immediately be

[00:32:23] like okay there's you know that's something

[00:32:25] to think about right and

[00:32:27] sometimes we don't have a choice on that either

[00:32:29] that's true but he hates his job

[00:32:31] so I'm thinking he hates

[00:32:33] his job he works long hours

[00:32:35] and what and what do you

[00:32:37] know anything about the medication

[00:32:39] and so I was just talking to him about

[00:32:41] side effects and the one I chose to tell him

[00:32:43] about was the sexual side effects

[00:32:45] and then he just like yeah I'm not taking this

[00:32:47] and I'm like oh I didn't

[00:32:49] expect that to happen and the pharmacist

[00:32:51] I was training under like I turned around

[00:32:53] and he's like yeah I can't believe you just did that

[00:32:55] like we don't talk people out of pills here

[00:32:57] but he got it but we really do I think need

[00:32:59] to be honest with informed

[00:33:01] consent well forget

[00:33:03] about that sister yeah that's I guess

[00:33:05] that's why I was

[00:33:07] good for you

[00:33:09] but I guess that's what I was

[00:33:11] thinking about

[00:33:13] and when I hear naturopathic doctors

[00:33:15] speak and how much time

[00:33:17] you spend with patients

[00:33:19] really like factoring that in

[00:33:21] is a sexual side effect

[00:33:23] gonna be important for this person

[00:33:25] I guess is where I was going with that right

[00:33:27] and if you've not really spent time

[00:33:29] with the patient because the system doesn't allow it

[00:33:31] then we really don't have informed

[00:33:33] consent right that I guess is my point

[00:33:35] right yeah all right

[00:33:37] yeah but sort of

[00:33:39] pull that full circle

[00:33:41] talking about the patient

[00:33:43] and treating them in naturopathically

[00:33:45] yes maybe

[00:33:47] maybe they that antidepressant does

[00:33:49] dull everything and they

[00:33:51] don't feel their depression

[00:33:53] but we always have other

[00:33:55] issues in the body so they're probably

[00:33:57] fatigued always they might

[00:33:59] they might may or may not be sleeping well

[00:34:01] probably not they could be in pain

[00:34:03] they're not eating well so their

[00:34:05] digestion's off so they have all these other

[00:34:07] factors to look at and

[00:34:09] as you help them to heal

[00:34:11] and all of these other pieces start

[00:34:13] falling into place that's when

[00:34:15] they start and sometimes

[00:34:17] even quicker than they're ready

[00:34:19] they say well I want to get off the antidepressant

[00:34:21] and sometimes you have to say

[00:34:23] I don't think you're quite ready yet

[00:34:25] but here's our benchmark

[00:34:27] for where we can make that happen

[00:34:29] and talk to your medical doctor

[00:34:31] before you're going off of it of course

[00:34:33] but it is just about

[00:34:35] looking at that progression

[00:34:37] I love how you explain that

[00:34:39] and I also think about

[00:34:41] what it's like for the MD who only has

[00:34:43] six minutes they just want this patient's pain to go away

[00:34:45] right they do mean well

[00:34:47] they just want the pain to go away and the patient

[00:34:49] wants the pain to go away and

[00:34:51] yeah it's just and I think

[00:34:53] with anxiety and depression and those

[00:34:55] numbers I believe are increasing in this country

[00:34:57] it's just something that we all should be

[00:34:59] we all should be thinking about

[00:35:01] other things we can do

[00:35:05] alright where else are we going with this

[00:35:07] let's see oh we went so many places

[00:35:11] when you want to do

[00:35:13] blah blah blah

[00:35:15] what do we want to do

[00:35:17] what do naturopathic doctors believe

[00:35:19] is the underlying cause of illness

[00:35:21] you guys talk about that all the time

[00:35:23] my MD friends do not talk about the underlying cause of illness

[00:35:25] you guys are running around a cocktail party

[00:35:27] talking about this stuff

[00:35:29] well it's very simple let me tell you

[00:35:31] I'm just kidding

[00:35:33] I love how you phrased that

[00:35:35] because that was my first thing too

[00:35:37] is the underlying cause of illness

[00:35:39] wouldn't that be great

[00:35:41] we have one

[00:35:43] madam you went to such a big

[00:35:45] place there now this shows meta

[00:35:47] yeah I love that

[00:35:49] but yeah to have

[00:35:51] just one single

[00:35:53] underlying cause of illness

[00:35:57] so you don't think there is

[00:35:59] because I tend to think

[00:36:01] of the homeopathic perspective

[00:36:03] I think the underlying cause of illness

[00:36:05] is a disturbance in the life force

[00:36:07] so that would be one thing

[00:36:09] however

[00:36:11] taking it in a very very deep breath

[00:36:13] but that's where I go

[00:36:15] however as the life force manifests

[00:36:17] in the person

[00:36:19] there's other ways to

[00:36:21] interfere and enhance

[00:36:23] the life force many ways to do that

[00:36:25] I guess is how I look at it

[00:36:27] and that's where I feel like the naturopathic doctor

[00:36:29] comes in

[00:36:31] but underlying

[00:36:33] I believe it is a disturbance in the life force

[00:36:35] in balance

[00:36:37] I'm with Hanuman

[00:36:39] on the underlying cause of illness

[00:36:41] good for you

[00:36:43] thank you Dr. Bunch

[00:36:45] I really wanted to get that in there

[00:36:47] that would be dropping the H-bomb

[00:36:49] right Hanuman

[00:36:51] mentioning Hanuman

[00:36:53] my kids will be so happy now that I've mentioned Hanuman in this podcast

[00:36:55] alright continue

[00:36:57] I just want to say something about that really quick

[00:36:59] so when I was in

[00:37:01] naturopathic medical school

[00:37:03] Dr. Steven Messer who's one of the old school

[00:37:05] awesome homeopath guys

[00:37:07] highly respected

[00:37:09] really amazing brilliant man

[00:37:11] he always told me

[00:37:13] I was in like the last throws

[00:37:15] of my homeopathic courses

[00:37:17] and he's like boy

[00:37:19] Rachel you're gonna make the best homeopath

[00:37:21] and I'm like are you kidding me why

[00:37:23] and he's like cause you don't believe it

[00:37:25] and I'm like oh okay I got you

[00:37:27] oh that's so interesting

[00:37:29] so without like digging too deeply

[00:37:31] into that I respect it

[00:37:33] completely

[00:37:35] and I think what I usually do

[00:37:37] is if a patient, if I think oh man

[00:37:39] this patient would be great for a homeopathic

[00:37:41] a classically trained perhaps

[00:37:43] that's right I will refer

[00:37:45] I love that

[00:37:47] cause I think that it's so cool when you see cases unfold

[00:37:49] with homeopathy

[00:37:51] I know I have seen it in my own home

[00:37:53] I've seen it in front of my eyes as well

[00:37:55] isn't it amazing

[00:37:57] but we digressed

[00:37:59] we Ted, Dr. Ted

[00:38:01] back to you, underlying cause of diseases

[00:38:03] so

[00:38:07] we have to look at a lot of what we've already talked about

[00:38:09] we have all of these different

[00:38:11] pieces

[00:38:13] of our health that could go wrong

[00:38:15] and that's when

[00:38:17] I talk about the underlying causes of disease

[00:38:19] I'm looking at all of these

[00:38:21] different factors

[00:38:23] that we have control over

[00:38:25] not just factors we have control over

[00:38:27] but other factors that maybe

[00:38:29] we don't have control over to see what's going on

[00:38:31] and how we can support

[00:38:33] the body to heal

[00:38:35] so obviously in my practice

[00:38:37] one of the biggest pieces is

[00:38:39] diet and nutrition

[00:38:41] and so

[00:38:43] there's a lot of different

[00:38:45] parts of that that can go wrong

[00:38:47] you could have people that are eating foods

[00:38:49] that they're either sensitive to or allergic to

[00:38:51] you could have people

[00:38:53] that are

[00:38:55] eating unhealthy diets that

[00:38:57] are restricting certain nutrients

[00:38:59] or maybe even getting too much of a certain nutrient

[00:39:01] or just

[00:39:03] obviously our American

[00:39:05] food source a lot of

[00:39:07] pesticides or other

[00:39:09] things that we know just really are not healthy

[00:39:11] for us that could be causing

[00:39:13] problems

[00:39:15] and aside from

[00:39:17] that we need to look at

[00:39:19] like we said

[00:39:21] the mental and emotional

[00:39:23] has there been some big trauma that could

[00:39:25] be a part of this

[00:39:27] are there environmental factors

[00:39:29] just like

[00:39:31] I talked about the pesticides or things like that

[00:39:33] but how about environmental factors

[00:39:35] like what happened in East Palestine

[00:39:37] those people are going to be

[00:39:39] in my opinion from hence

[00:39:41] forth these people

[00:39:43] should be treated differently

[00:39:45] and so far as their health and wellness would you not agree

[00:39:47] right yeah but I don't think that

[00:39:49] would enter into

[00:39:51] the allopathic

[00:39:53] physicians mind to treat them

[00:39:55] differently or they wouldn't know what to do anyway

[00:39:57] they would know what to do but that is a big

[00:39:59] that's a dramatic example

[00:40:01] but it's a very real example

[00:40:03] these people are exposed to we really don't know what

[00:40:05] moving forward we don't know

[00:40:07] what's going to happen

[00:40:09] at some point I'm thinking someone's going to

[00:40:11] have to unravel that yeah someone like

[00:40:13] you or you exactly and

[00:40:15] you know other other environmental factors

[00:40:17] like I had a patient yesterday who was a new patient

[00:40:19] and

[00:40:21] found out that her whole family

[00:40:23] had tested positive and hair analysis

[00:40:25] for high levels of arsenic

[00:40:27] well fascinating that could cause a lot

[00:40:29] of different problems in the body

[00:40:31] we need to take care of that do you routinely

[00:40:33] test for heavy metals and hair what may do

[00:40:35] this this had been

[00:40:37] done prior to them coming to see me really they had that done

[00:40:39] yeah they had that done it was

[00:40:41] interesting that is okay and of course

[00:40:43] we have genetic factors some of which

[00:40:45] we have control over some of which we don't

[00:40:47] have control over and

[00:40:49] that just made me think of I haven't

[00:40:51] thought about this in years but back to

[00:40:53] naturopathic medical school

[00:40:55] and you have sort of your

[00:40:57] three legs of health

[00:40:59] and so you have your genetic

[00:41:01] and

[00:41:03] I can remember those all three of those

[00:41:05] now you brought it up to I know

[00:41:07] I brought it up but you have the genetic

[00:41:09] yeah you have the genetic factors

[00:41:11] and you have the nutritional factors

[00:41:13] mm-hmm and

[00:41:15] environmental factors

[00:41:17] okay yeah so

[00:41:19] you know some of these you know the genetic

[00:41:21] factors we have a lot less

[00:41:23] specific control over

[00:41:25] and so that means that we have

[00:41:27] to focus our

[00:41:29] environment and our

[00:41:31] diet nutritional status

[00:41:33] to compensate

[00:41:35] but see this is what I you guys say

[00:41:37] things like this like it's the most normal

[00:41:39] thing in the world and it is my husband

[00:41:41] says this all the time you know so

[00:41:43] much stuff right and nobody

[00:41:45] knows what you're talking about

[00:41:47] but people here's what I see in the

[00:41:49] pharmacy here's what I see every day

[00:41:51] but that's in my family

[00:41:53] but that's in my family I was no wonder I'm on

[00:41:55] 15 meds my grandmother was 15 meds

[00:41:57] themselves yes

[00:41:59] but they don't understand the genetics

[00:42:01] are largely influenced

[00:42:03] by environment

[00:42:05] that's science so why

[00:42:07] science

[00:42:09] not always just genetics either just because

[00:42:11] they

[00:42:13] but this is what they're complaining about

[00:42:15] just because your family has high cholesterol

[00:42:17] it could be that

[00:42:19] everybody learns how to eat the same way

[00:42:21] that's an honest tip

[00:42:23] that's not

[00:42:25] breakfast lunch and dinner

[00:42:27] that sounds really good but

[00:42:29] but people don't

[00:42:31] again it's the programming

[00:42:33] it's the marketing it's the way

[00:42:35] people are taught to

[00:42:37] think since they're very little the state of

[00:42:39] helplessness

[00:42:41] my grandfather had this this and this

[00:42:43] there's nothing I can do about it and they

[00:42:45] say it like it's

[00:42:47] the gospel

[00:42:49] so I'm having a really hard time not putting

[00:42:51] my tinfoil hat on because

[00:42:53] so much of this helplessness

[00:42:55] is really geared toward

[00:42:57] being dependent on the government

[00:42:59] to supply every need

[00:43:01] and cut

[00:43:03] and those things are

[00:43:05] thank you folks for listening

[00:43:07] those things are relevant though

[00:43:09] we had a good run

[00:43:11] we do have systems in place

[00:43:13] that create

[00:43:15] some of that effect

[00:43:17] and some of it's good and some of it's really bad

[00:43:19] but it also comes down to

[00:43:21] the pharmaceutical industry running

[00:43:23] the medical industry

[00:43:25] and businessmen running the medical

[00:43:27] industry

[00:43:29] I love watching

[00:43:31] the say the

[00:43:33] newest cholesterol medication

[00:43:35] commercials

[00:43:37] is there another one?

[00:43:39] I don't watch a lot of commercials

[00:43:41] I don't watch a lot of regular tv

[00:43:43] I want to see what's influencing people

[00:43:45] but in the past you'd watch these commercials

[00:43:47] about Lipitor or whatever

[00:43:49] they would talk about how important

[00:43:51] diet and exercise are

[00:43:53] but you're still going to need your Lipitor

[00:43:55] to lower your cholesterol

[00:43:57] just the fact that you can do those other things

[00:43:59] and that's good and important for you

[00:44:01] but you're still going to need your Lipitor

[00:44:03] or that even lowering cholesterol

[00:44:05] is the goal

[00:44:07] because it is another thing

[00:44:09] right?

[00:44:11] there we go

[00:44:13] yeah to another place

[00:44:15] always I have a deep

[00:44:17] well of

[00:44:19] we will plumb those steps

[00:44:21] here in the show

[00:44:23] alright so Ted what other

[00:44:25] personalized should we talk about

[00:44:27] personalized? I hear that

[00:44:29] used kind of like the word holistic

[00:44:31] as a marketing term

[00:44:33] that now doctors are saying

[00:44:35] well if you come to this practice

[00:44:37] your plan will be personalized

[00:44:39] and what they mean is I'll pick the right

[00:44:41] statin for you

[00:44:43] to run with that metaphor

[00:44:45] I think then people don't understand

[00:44:47] what that word

[00:44:49] means to a naturopathic doctor

[00:44:51] I know what it means in my world

[00:44:53] it means I'm going to pick the drug for you

[00:44:55] right

[00:44:57] yeah I mean in our world

[00:44:59] it just comes right back

[00:45:01] to what we were already just talking about

[00:45:03] that we look

[00:45:05] at each and every patient

[00:45:07] as

[00:45:09] their own unique self

[00:45:11] and they have different factors that are contributing

[00:45:13] to their health issues

[00:45:15] all the factors you

[00:45:17] the aforementioned factors

[00:45:19] exactly and you will take time to find those factors

[00:45:21] right

[00:45:23] you can have a patient

[00:45:25] 20 different patients

[00:45:27] they all come into the office with

[00:45:29] fatigue

[00:45:31] and there can be 20 different reasons

[00:45:33] why that fatigue is happening

[00:45:35] and even on top of that

[00:45:37] maybe 20 or 30 or 40 other

[00:45:39] factors you need to look at

[00:45:41] so that they can overcome

[00:45:43] that fatigue

[00:45:45] so on that note

[00:45:47] an interesting distinction that's coming to me

[00:45:49] because when I hear

[00:45:51] you both speak

[00:45:53] you're very much working with the patient

[00:45:55] the patient is an active participant

[00:45:57] and I like to say to patients

[00:45:59] even in the pharmacy

[00:46:01] it can't happen without you

[00:46:05] but because we kind of have this

[00:46:07] helplessness programming

[00:46:09] how do you overcome the patient

[00:46:11] who wants to be in the same paradigm

[00:46:13] like okay well this

[00:46:15] MD gave me these drugs

[00:46:17] you're just going to give me supplements and herbs

[00:46:19] but I'm still out of it

[00:46:21] you tell me what to do

[00:46:23] I don't really want to participate

[00:46:25] because I think they just don't know that they can

[00:46:27] or they've never had perhaps the experience

[00:46:29] of really being an active participant

[00:46:31] in their own well-being

[00:46:33] which sounds like madness but this is where we are

[00:46:35] yeah and

[00:46:37] do you have that as a barrier

[00:46:39] how do you overcome it

[00:46:41] I ask them where they want to start

[00:46:43] and if they don't know

[00:46:45] and I say

[00:46:47] if I feel like a conversation

[00:46:49] is not going anywhere

[00:46:51] or they're kind of throwing stories

[00:46:53] and they don't know what they want to do

[00:46:55] so like what's your main goal today

[00:46:57] what do you want to feel in a month

[00:46:59] how do you want to feel in a month

[00:47:01] okay it's a great goal to have

[00:47:03] how many steps are you willing to take

[00:47:05] right now one step

[00:47:07] one thing that you feel like you could do every day

[00:47:09] it's motivational interviewing

[00:47:11] so it's like what's one thing

[00:47:13] that you feel like you could do okay

[00:47:15] if you do that one thing and you feel this way

[00:47:17] where are you going to get from it

[00:47:19] so you pair up their

[00:47:21] basically their expectations

[00:47:23] and the benefits

[00:47:25] with the features of what they're doing

[00:47:27] so like here's some things that you can

[00:47:29] work on so that you can have

[00:47:31] this feeling so that you can benefit in this way

[00:47:33] I want to be out of pain

[00:47:35] and run after my grandkids

[00:47:37] so here's one thing you got to do

[00:47:39] it's the hardest thing but it's one thing

[00:47:41] you can do every day stop eating sugar

[00:47:43] really just one thing

[00:47:45] yep okay write it on your hand

[00:47:47] you know what I mean

[00:47:49] lead with the benefits

[00:47:51] sometimes it's just one thing at a time

[00:47:53] and then they get the hang of it

[00:47:55] and realize they do have power

[00:47:57] how do you overcome it

[00:47:59] well a lot of what she said

[00:48:01] but every patient is

[00:48:03] in what they're able to put forth

[00:48:05] so some patients come in

[00:48:07] and they're in a place

[00:48:09] where they just want to go gung-ho

[00:48:11] and do everything they can

[00:48:13] to feel as best as they can

[00:48:15] in fact I have

[00:48:17] a really good story about

[00:48:19] I have a patient that I've seen a couple of times

[00:48:21] a gentleman in the office

[00:48:23] and he's really put forth a lot of effort

[00:48:25] in his diet and you know we've gotten him

[00:48:27] healthy over just a couple of visits

[00:48:29] he's feeling much much better

[00:48:31] and yesterday

[00:48:33] his wife came in for a new patient visit

[00:48:35] hmm

[00:48:37] and she wasn't anywhere

[00:48:39] near the same place in fact

[00:48:41] she

[00:48:43] I don't know the whole story with it but she was

[00:48:45] at least 15 minutes late

[00:48:47] and once she got to the front desk

[00:48:49] was well I know I'm really late

[00:48:51] so you can just you know if you need to just cancel the visit

[00:48:53] that's okay

[00:48:55] because I think that her

[00:48:57] I think the office was trying to get a hold of her

[00:48:59] and she was happening and I think

[00:49:01] actually talked to the husband and he made sure

[00:49:03] she got in but she was petrified

[00:49:05] she saw how

[00:49:07] everything that he was doing

[00:49:09] and she didn't want

[00:49:11] she didn't feel like she was could do all that

[00:49:13] and it was really

[00:49:15] I think he was really scared

[00:49:17] and so I had

[00:49:19] to be

[00:49:21] have a much different presence with her

[00:49:23] than I did the husband

[00:49:25] where we're taking

[00:49:27] things a lot more simply

[00:49:29] trying to

[00:49:31] calm things down so that she's

[00:49:33] able to listen

[00:49:35] and able to understand

[00:49:37] some of the things we're trying to do

[00:49:39] and where with the husband we focused on

[00:49:41] you know

[00:49:43] lots of diet factors and some different supplements

[00:49:47] you know I told her

[00:49:49] we're not going to focus on diet and that was

[00:49:51] the biggest relief in the world to her

[00:49:53] oh you really met her where she was I feel that

[00:49:55] you really met her where she was

[00:49:57] that is a beautiful example of personalized

[00:49:59] and it's going to take a lot of time

[00:50:01] and it's going to take a lot more time

[00:50:03] when we're not doing everything

[00:50:05] together but it's

[00:50:07] going to be a lot quicker for her than

[00:50:09] not doing anything

[00:50:11] that's a really great story

[00:50:13] I love that

[00:50:15] that's what you mean when you say

[00:50:17] personalized what's important to you

[00:50:19] just seeing where they are

[00:50:21] and meeting them where they are

[00:50:23] I think that is absolutely

[00:50:25] beautiful and on the note of

[00:50:27] that

[00:50:29] like the word personalized the word holistic

[00:50:31] really gets thrown around

[00:50:33] a lot

[00:50:35] so I think if you guys are

[00:50:37] game we would spend some time explaining

[00:50:39] the difference in holistic

[00:50:41] modality especially here in Ohio because

[00:50:43] there's a big functional medicine

[00:50:45] influence I feel like

[00:50:47] so for us personally in Ohio that's

[00:50:49] a big one like the difference between

[00:50:51] naturopathic medicine

[00:50:53] and functional medicine because the people just don't

[00:50:55] know and maybe other types of holistic

[00:50:57] practitioners just to help it

[00:50:59] just how people understand

[00:51:01] so that they hear it from professionals versus

[00:51:03] the socials

[00:51:05] and so the big push here

[00:51:07] is that Dr. Mark Hyman

[00:51:09] partnered with

[00:51:11] the Cleveland Clinic

[00:51:13] did you know that?

[00:51:15] so they have a whole big functional medicine program

[00:51:17] through the Cleveland Clinic

[00:51:19] it's cool and in a lot of ways

[00:51:21] on the surface

[00:51:23] looks great

[00:51:25] but in practice

[00:51:27] it's not anywhere near what you'd expect and want

[00:51:29] because it's so busy

[00:51:31] I've heard several patients

[00:51:33] who go in there

[00:51:35] they get thousands of dollars worth of tests done

[00:51:37] and it's going to take six months

[00:51:39] for them to get back in to even go over any of the tests

[00:51:43] so by that time all those test results

[00:51:45] are worthless

[00:51:47] and I guess one of those things that I

[00:51:49] in general have a problem

[00:51:51] with a lot of how functional medicine practices

[00:51:53] it's all very much

[00:51:55] test based

[00:51:57] they order a whole different panel of tests

[00:51:59] and treat off of those tests

[00:52:01] because that's how they're trained

[00:52:03] but if you run all of those

[00:52:05] tests all at once

[00:52:07] then either A

[00:52:09] you have to give them 50 different supplements

[00:52:11] and they do sometimes

[00:52:13] or if they go step by

[00:52:15] step and treat the first test

[00:52:17] the most important one

[00:52:19] well then that's going to change the results

[00:52:21] in some of these other tests too

[00:52:23] so once they get to the next one

[00:52:25] it might not be where they're at

[00:52:27] Ted that's just a lot of straight talk right there

[00:52:29] well a person's not a car

[00:52:31] you don't just plug them in and run a diagnostic

[00:52:33] and replace the water pump

[00:52:35] plus what I used to tell the women

[00:52:37] who would come into me proudly with their TSH

[00:52:39] here's my TSH this is why

[00:52:41] this or need that I'm like we don't treat pieces of paper

[00:52:43] isn't it the same thing

[00:52:45] but it really feels like

[00:52:47] it feels personalized

[00:52:49] and it feels high-tech

[00:52:51] different

[00:52:53] than what they're used to

[00:52:55] this is fancy

[00:52:59] so I pulled up definition

[00:53:01] of functional medicine

[00:53:03] from the Institute of Functional Medicine

[00:53:05] which is really probably

[00:53:07] the top organization that will

[00:53:09] train different practitioners

[00:53:11] great let's have it

[00:53:13] so their definition is

[00:53:15] as a catalyst in the transformation of healthcare

[00:53:17] functional medicine

[00:53:19] takes a comprehensive whole health approach

[00:53:21] to prevention

[00:53:23] health and well-being

[00:53:25] treats the root cause of disease

[00:53:27] and restores healthy function

[00:53:29] through a personalized patient experience

[00:53:31] all while being a vital partner

[00:53:33] to conventional medicine

[00:53:35] that sounds like you

[00:53:37] doesn't that sound like exactly what we were talking about

[00:53:39] that is exactly what it sounds like

[00:53:41] if I was a patient and I read this

[00:53:43] and then I read like

[00:53:45] your website or a definition of naturopathic medicine

[00:53:47] I would have no idea I'd be so confused

[00:53:49] but what it comes down to is

[00:53:51] it's because functional medicine

[00:53:53] really came out of naturopathic medicine

[00:53:55] most of the doctors that taught these

[00:53:57] doctors and run the courses

[00:53:59] are naturopathic doctors I had no idea

[00:54:01] yeah

[00:54:03] so but functional medicine in general

[00:54:05] you have MDs, DOs

[00:54:07] chiropractors

[00:54:09] nurses

[00:54:11] oh a chiropractor can be a functional medicine practitioner

[00:54:13] they often are

[00:54:15] and you'll even have health coaches

[00:54:17] that go through some of the training but they're not

[00:54:19] certified and still call themselves

[00:54:21] a functional medicine practitioner

[00:54:23] I saw that on instagram I was going to announce to you guys

[00:54:25] that I'm going to take a 20-30 hour

[00:54:27] course in nutritional medicine

[00:54:29] and I'm putting up a jingle

[00:54:31] I'm surprised it's not a protected term

[00:54:33] I will be your first patient

[00:54:35] it's just like naturopathic medicine

[00:54:37] if each state

[00:54:39] I don't believe there's any state license

[00:54:41] anywhere

[00:54:43] so you can't restrict that

[00:54:45] yeah

[00:54:47] that's a really good point and when I saw the ad

[00:54:49] it was so pretty she looked really happy

[00:54:51] after her 20-30 hours

[00:54:53] now I don't know what it cost her to become

[00:54:55] this so called whatever it was

[00:54:57] I don't even remember but I'm like wow

[00:54:59] beautiful spunky baleage hair

[00:55:01] yes but trained

[00:55:03] by functional medicine doctors some of which are very famous

[00:55:06] some of which whose name we may or may not have mentioned today

[00:55:09] exactly okay then but

[00:55:11] the typical training

[00:55:13] because you have to understand these doctors

[00:55:15] there are other types of

[00:55:17] healthcare practitioners that don't get

[00:55:19] natural medicine in their

[00:55:21] training of medical school

[00:55:23] okay whatever so they're doing

[00:55:25] some weekend courses

[00:55:27] and seminars so I actually have that

[00:55:30] IFN

[00:55:32] was it IFN?

[00:55:34] yeah it's IFN, yeah I think so

[00:55:36] they're what they have to do to be certified

[00:55:38] and there's six different courses

[00:55:40] so each of these courses are

[00:55:42] 15-20 hour

[00:55:44] courses

[00:55:46] one in GI function and dysfunction

[00:55:48] one in environmental health

[00:55:50] one on the immune system

[00:55:52] one on hormones

[00:55:54] one in cardiometabolic so of course that will pull in

[00:55:56] heart disease

[00:55:58] diabetes and things like that

[00:56:00] and then bio energetics

[00:56:02] which they've defined as examines

[00:56:04] mitochondrial function in its relationship

[00:56:06] to oxidative stress, nutrition

[00:56:08] lifestyle highlights their

[00:56:10] roles in health and disease

[00:56:12] so they have

[00:56:14] it's sort of like a

[00:56:16] cheat sheet

[00:56:18] to understand how to treat some

[00:56:20] you know some health issues

[00:56:22] on a big level

[00:56:24] without having to go through a whole

[00:56:26] medical training in natural medicine

[00:56:28] so and a lot of people

[00:56:30] can do really well with that

[00:56:32] and can be great practitioners

[00:56:34] and really understand the body and really get into it

[00:56:36] and sometimes be more effective

[00:56:38] than a naturopathic doctor

[00:56:40] I'm not going to say that

[00:56:42] functional medicine isn't good

[00:56:44] right these are all tools

[00:56:46] oh yeah you're just defining just for the people

[00:56:48] the difference

[00:56:50] but just the fact that there are

[00:56:52] differences in the training

[00:56:54] and functional medicine

[00:56:56] especially in places like Ohio

[00:56:58] I've heard plenty of

[00:57:00] times where people like well

[00:57:02] I think I need to see a functional medicine

[00:57:04] doctor for a better outcome

[00:57:06] oh yeah because that functional

[00:57:08] medicine doctor is going to be

[00:57:10] more educated than me

[00:57:12] yes that hasn't happened

[00:57:14] often but I haven't heard that a couple of times

[00:57:16] well there is a perception like that

[00:57:18] there's a status and they've done a great

[00:57:20] job marketing that

[00:57:22] part of that lends to how I

[00:57:24] approach my patients too

[00:57:26] because I am not

[00:57:28] so I'm not worried about

[00:57:30] the title I'm not worried about

[00:57:32] making myself look like the

[00:57:34] smartest person in the room

[00:57:36] my goal is always to do what I need to do

[00:57:38] to help the patient

[00:57:40] which means that I typically don't use

[00:57:42] medical terms I try to be on

[00:57:44] their level and

[00:57:46] help them to understand

[00:57:48] how we can work together to help

[00:57:50] the patient heal so some people

[00:57:52] can take that especially since

[00:57:54] I'm not licensed in the state that

[00:57:56] I'm not quite the same

[00:57:58] level yeah not the same status

[00:58:00] right but

[00:58:02] that brings us to talking about

[00:58:04] since naturopathic doctors

[00:58:06] aren't licensed in

[00:58:08] states like Ohio we're

[00:58:10] recognized in about 23 states right now

[00:58:12] and a couple of other

[00:58:14] provinces but because

[00:58:16] we don't have a protected title

[00:58:18] in say Ohio

[00:58:20] there are people with little to

[00:58:22] know formal training

[00:58:24] that can call themselves naturopaths

[00:58:26] or naturopathic doctors that's a problem

[00:58:28] in Ohio in fact

[00:58:30] just a couple of examples of people in this area

[00:58:32] one person

[00:58:34] on her website she calls herself

[00:58:36] a board certified naturopathic doctor

[00:58:38] how can she do that legally

[00:58:40] well because there is no protected

[00:58:42] status here in Ohio oh that's right

[00:58:44] board certified by what board

[00:58:46] but it's a made up board that

[00:58:48] pays some money and they can call themselves

[00:58:50] board certified by this board

[00:58:52] oh dear that's so confusing for the public

[00:58:54] and so you go through their website and

[00:58:56] any well-trained naturopathic doctor

[00:58:58] is going to list

[00:59:00] where they went to school

[00:59:02] good point things on that end

[00:59:04] if they're in a state like Ohio they're

[00:59:06] going to list where they're licensed

[00:59:08] yes because we all carry a license

[00:59:10] in another state that does

[00:59:12] license naturopathic you do too

[00:59:14] oh yeah I'm licensed in Vermont

[00:59:16] I've known you for how long how did I not

[00:59:18] know this

[00:59:20] being licensed in Vermont was really

[00:59:22] for me it came down to

[00:59:24] well for one it was 23 years ago

[00:59:26] when I got my license

[00:59:28] but there weren't really

[00:59:30] much of it there really wasn't

[00:59:32] any state closer to Ohio

[00:59:34] since then Maryland and DC

[00:59:36] are licensed which would be a lot closer

[00:59:38] yeah but Vermont was

[00:59:40] really the closest place to Ohio and

[00:59:42] they had a good scope of practice

[00:59:44] and it was easy for me to get my license

[00:59:46] there and keep it so that

[00:59:48] once naturopathic doctors are licensed here in Ohio

[00:59:50] you have a risk for that

[00:59:52] I can transfer my license

[00:59:54] versus if I weren't to do that

[00:59:56] and then once Ohio

[00:59:58] license is naturopathic doctors

[01:00:00] I would have to then

[01:00:02] retake board exams and do

[01:00:04] all these other steps

[01:00:06] so that I could get a brand new license

[01:00:08] right so speaking of which should we

[01:00:10] talk about your education then since we've kind of

[01:00:12] talked about the education

[01:00:14] of a functional medicine

[01:00:16] doctor and I want to give

[01:00:18] well just a couple more things about these

[01:00:20] unlicensed unlicenable

[01:00:22] naturopaths so that

[01:00:24] same person they said calls herself

[01:00:26] a board certified naturopath doctor

[01:00:28] you go to her website

[01:00:30] and the only training she has listed

[01:00:32] is that well she shadowed

[01:00:34] a heart surgeon for a period

[01:00:36] of time she also

[01:00:38] had some point in time worked with some kind of

[01:00:40] cancer specialist

[01:00:42] and some kind of nutritional

[01:00:44] biochemist so no

[01:00:46] formalized training

[01:00:48] and no degree form right

[01:00:50] oh that's interesting other people premed

[01:00:52] no exactly no

[01:00:54] grad school no clinical rotation

[01:00:56] rounds wow and

[01:00:58] and your average

[01:01:00] your average Ohioan perhaps wouldn't

[01:01:02] know that that

[01:01:04] is not sufficient right

[01:01:06] and there are

[01:01:08] online courses

[01:01:10] oh yes you know

[01:01:12] one of the most common is called trinity

[01:01:14] college natural health is still out there

[01:01:16] yes yes I went to their

[01:01:18] website just this week

[01:01:20] and their naturopathic medicine course

[01:01:22] it looks like you probably

[01:01:24] can complete it in 16 weeks

[01:01:26] and

[01:01:28] it's $2,000

[01:01:30] if you pay up front you get a 10% discount

[01:01:32] I'm gonna do that too

[01:01:34] and that's so funny that they're still around

[01:01:36] I used to teach alternative medicine

[01:01:38] to pharmacy students

[01:01:40] and that was always the test question

[01:01:42] which one of these is not an actual

[01:01:44] school for naturopathic doctors

[01:01:46] and I'm like one day this is just gonna be

[01:01:48] not gonna be able to be a question

[01:01:50] because that's not gonna be an existence anymore

[01:01:52] and here we are

[01:01:54] yeah and I mean

[01:01:56] now we have legitimate

[01:01:58] distance learning colleges

[01:02:00] yeah where

[01:02:02] say when I graduated from medical school

[01:02:04] you really didn't have much of that

[01:02:06] but so you do now

[01:02:08] have colleges

[01:02:10] that are

[01:02:12] certified

[01:02:14] through the department of education

[01:02:16] that have different courses

[01:02:18] that you can graduate

[01:02:20] not naturopathic medicine but

[01:02:22] say you want to be an MBA or an accountant

[01:02:24] or a nurse practitioner even

[01:02:26] you can do an online

[01:02:28] course to get certified through

[01:02:30] through a legitimate school

[01:02:32] they have the technology in place

[01:02:34] for accountability and

[01:02:36] there you go

[01:02:38] but these schools don't have

[01:02:40] accreditation under any

[01:02:42] legitimate

[01:02:44] board under the department of education

[01:02:46] there's no oversight

[01:02:48] there's no accountability

[01:02:50] right

[01:02:52] and if you every one

[01:02:54] of these schools that I've

[01:02:56] looked at and you look at the requirements

[01:03:00] it's

[01:03:02] every single one of them

[01:03:04] has a clause that says

[01:03:06] we understand

[01:03:08] that life experience

[01:03:10] matters

[01:03:12] and it makes it sound like

[01:03:14] well you could

[01:03:16] take their course and graduate from it

[01:03:18] and call yourself an naturopathic doctor

[01:03:20] even if you don't have a high school diploma

[01:03:22] because you have a life experience

[01:03:24] exactly

[01:03:26] you're gonna be in charge of people's health

[01:03:28] and you're gonna have to back so much right now

[01:03:30] oh my

[01:03:32] that's reality though

[01:03:34] that's a truth bomb right there

[01:03:36] so do you want to talk about your education then

[01:03:40] because I think people don't

[01:03:42] understand

[01:03:44] that you went to medical school

[01:03:46] my personal education

[01:03:48] took a really winding path

[01:03:50] would you like to hear about it?

[01:03:52] so my whole life I've been an artist

[01:03:54] and like

[01:03:56] painter, sculpting

[01:03:58] like handi-making

[01:04:00] doing lots of things like that

[01:04:02] I went to film school actually

[01:04:04] I have a film degree

[01:04:06] I had no inclination of ever becoming a doctor

[01:04:08] although when I was a child

[01:04:10] I had a calling on my life

[01:04:12] that I kind of was like no I'm not gonna be a doctor

[01:04:14] like I remember legit saying those words

[01:04:16] when I was like 5

[01:04:18] isn't that weird? as a response

[01:04:20] to an inner calling the way you said it's like

[01:04:22] that's amazing

[01:04:24] so that was there from

[01:04:26] I've always helped others

[01:04:28] when I finished my film degree

[01:04:30] and I worked in Hollywood and I was like wow this is terrible

[01:04:32] I started working for Apple

[01:04:34] and then I was like

[01:04:36] helping a lot of people in the genius bar

[01:04:38] doing like tech support stuff

[01:04:40] and people would just pour their lives out to me

[01:04:42] and

[01:04:44] I remember one day

[01:04:46] it happened at least one time so there was

[01:04:48] one or maybe even two times it was a while ago now

[01:04:50] where someone would come back

[01:04:52] and say hey

[01:04:54] I don't really remember your name

[01:04:56] but I remember talking to you last week

[01:04:58] and I was ready to take my own life

[01:05:00] and then you changed that

[01:05:02] wow and I was like what?

[01:05:04] right

[01:05:06] how do I have this impact on people

[01:05:08] and then eventually I was like

[01:05:10] having my own health struggles

[01:05:12] and dealing with stuff

[01:05:14] I figured out my own Hashimoto's Thyroiditis

[01:05:16] on my own

[01:05:18] I fired my doctor

[01:05:20] and I was like I'm on a mission now

[01:05:22] I'm a single person

[01:05:24] I don't know how it seems like nutrition is the way

[01:05:26] so I went back to school

[01:05:28] I got a bachelor's in nutrition

[01:05:30] and then after that

[01:05:32] I was talking to

[01:05:34] a naturopath in California

[01:05:36] where we do have licensing

[01:05:38] and so I was working with an integrated

[01:05:40] MD she's so cool

[01:05:42] her name's Kelly McCann just an awesome lady

[01:05:44] and then she had a naturopath there

[01:05:46] and she

[01:05:48] I was like I want to know about that

[01:05:50] like that sounds really cool

[01:05:52] and they tried

[01:05:54] they kind of mentored me in that area

[01:05:56] and like you know maybe you want to do

[01:05:58] MD school maybe you want to do this

[01:06:00] maybe that it's like no MD seems right

[01:06:02] I went to Southwest College of naturopathic medicine

[01:06:04] which is now today known as Sonoran

[01:06:06] which whatever

[01:06:08] but I went there and I was like

[01:06:10] I feel at home here

[01:06:12] I met all these people

[01:06:14] I made jokes about levitating hippies

[01:06:16] I saw all their research stuff

[01:06:18] in herbal medicine I was like dude this is so cool

[01:06:20] they're marrying

[01:06:22] research in western

[01:06:24] like diagnostic

[01:06:26] therapeutic like level like high level

[01:06:28] diligence

[01:06:30] and scientific rigor with

[01:06:32] natural like eastern

[01:06:34] like all these different

[01:06:36] ways to deal with things and nutrition

[01:06:38] I was like this is so cool so I went there

[01:06:40] and

[01:06:42] I finished all of that that was four years

[01:06:44] of school including clinical

[01:06:46] rotations I did lots of outside stuff

[01:06:48] I actually did my residency

[01:06:50] it was cut short but I

[01:06:52] did a partial residency in

[01:06:54] interventional orthopedics so

[01:06:56] I did a lot of like joint injection

[01:06:58] type of things and I got

[01:07:00] into doing that and like some ultrasound

[01:07:02] diagnostics and

[01:07:04] and then eventually I came back to my

[01:07:06] first love remember how I said

[01:07:08] I figured out my own Hashimoto's

[01:07:10] which is an endocrine disorder and I've just been

[01:07:12] obsessed with endocrine ever since

[01:07:14] because during the kind of

[01:07:16] COVID times and all that a lot of stuff

[01:07:18] you know got

[01:07:20] knocked out of my lap

[01:07:22] and then other things arrived

[01:07:24] for me and then I just

[01:07:26] the more patients I saw

[01:07:28] with all these metabolic

[01:07:30] endocrine problems and I've so

[01:07:32] many diabetic

[01:07:34] and like hormone imbalanced people

[01:07:36] but yeah so that

[01:07:38] in itself became

[01:07:40] part of my education and so

[01:07:42] anyways I'm still working toward

[01:07:44] even further education with

[01:07:46] the endocrinology board so

[01:07:48] that I can take everything that I

[01:07:50] use to try and help more of those type of patients

[01:07:52] so but yeah so that's

[01:07:54] kind of the meandering path that my

[01:07:56] education took

[01:07:58] right yeah so

[01:08:00] to recap you know

[01:08:02] you did have to

[01:08:04] do a bachelor's degree

[01:08:06] that is required for your education

[01:08:08] just like a medical like a traditional

[01:08:10] medical school you need a bachelor's degree

[01:08:12] to get in a naturopathic medical

[01:08:14] school you need a bachelor's degree to get in

[01:08:16] yeah and including all of the same type

[01:08:18] of basic science

[01:08:20] courses you need your

[01:08:22] biology and chemistry and biochemistry

[01:08:24] and whatnot

[01:08:26] so that you can be accepted

[01:08:28] now naturopathic medical school we

[01:08:30] don't have like the mcat

[01:08:32] right because

[01:08:34] we're not the dominant form of medicine

[01:08:36] in this country so there is not

[01:08:38] such a huge

[01:08:40] competitive nature to that

[01:08:42] okay yes you don't

[01:08:44] I mean conventional medicine I don't know what

[01:08:46] the statistic is but obviously there are

[01:08:48] lots of people that

[01:08:50] apply that never get in

[01:08:52] that's neither here nor there

[01:08:54] so we have to get a four year undergrad

[01:08:56] degree and then

[01:08:58] it is a four year medical school

[01:09:00] and where did you go to school Ted? I went to the same school

[01:09:02] the Southwest College of naturopathic medicine

[01:09:04] Sonoran University now

[01:09:06] yeah and so

[01:09:08] with that we do

[01:09:10] our first two years of schooling

[01:09:12] are very similar to

[01:09:14] an MD program

[01:09:16] all of your regular anatomy

[01:09:18] and physiology, your biochemistry

[01:09:20] all of those different

[01:09:22] courses in fact

[01:09:24] my younger brother who is a primary

[01:09:26] care DO

[01:09:28] he started osteopathic medical

[01:09:30] school

[01:09:32] right actually a couple weeks after I graduated

[01:09:34] from medical school and so

[01:09:36] he actually was able to pass

[01:09:38] on a lot of my basic science

[01:09:40] textbooks because they were still the same

[01:09:42] textbooks that he needed to use

[01:09:44] and so those first two years

[01:09:46] have a lot more to do with that basic science

[01:09:48] and then the third and fourth

[01:09:50] year are a lot more with the clinical

[01:09:52] so we still have to learn

[01:09:54] pharmacology and

[01:09:56] conventional diagnostics

[01:09:58] but we do a lot

[01:10:00] of training in different natural therapies

[01:10:02] so we

[01:10:04] learn about nutrition and

[01:10:06] herbal medicine and homeopathy

[01:10:08] and physical medicine and all of these

[01:10:10] different natural therapeutics

[01:10:12] traditional Chinese medicine too

[01:10:14] at our school

[01:10:16] I don't believe any of the other schools have that

[01:10:18] that's something I liked about

[01:10:20] very interesting in the state of Arizona

[01:10:22] a naturopathic doctor

[01:10:24] who passes the

[01:10:26] Chinese medicine boards

[01:10:28] you can practice acupuncture

[01:10:30] so they have to give

[01:10:32] education in Chinese medicine

[01:10:34] acupuncture so that

[01:10:36] these people can practice and be safe

[01:10:38] that's very interesting

[01:10:40] so is there anything else you wanted to say about your education

[01:10:42] I'd like to just touch on the therapies

[01:10:44] that you use since you mentioned

[01:10:46] you're trained in so many therapies

[01:10:48] I'm sitting here wondering how would a naturopathic doctor

[01:10:50] I'd like to know which

[01:10:52] which really resonated

[01:10:54] which you brought from school into practice

[01:10:56] yeah and so that's one of those

[01:10:58] interesting things where we do pull

[01:11:00] a lot of different therapeutics

[01:11:02] based on and you can't do everything

[01:11:04] no you don't want to do everything

[01:11:06] and everybody has

[01:11:08] certain therapies that they're better at

[01:11:10] and certain things that they're exposed to

[01:11:12] and you see that that works

[01:11:14] so that leads you to keep doing

[01:11:16] more research and learning on that

[01:11:18] or like you said your patient population

[01:11:20] who's attracting, who are you attracting

[01:11:22] right? yeah what kind of people

[01:11:24] yeah so

[01:11:26] you know so for me

[01:11:28] I tend to focus

[01:11:30] on nutrition

[01:11:32] not just diet

[01:11:34] but also

[01:11:36] dietary supplements

[01:11:38] so our vitamins, our minerals and other dietary supplements

[01:11:40] and of course that term

[01:11:42] dietary supplement we have another episode

[01:11:44] that if you want to learn exactly

[01:11:46] what all that means you can look at that

[01:11:48] and so that's a lot of my

[01:11:50] practice

[01:11:52] so to talk about some of the

[01:11:54] different things that I've seen with that

[01:11:56] just with diet

[01:11:58] based therapies so

[01:12:00] really cool

[01:12:02] sort of case that I saw a patient

[01:12:04] came in and she was

[01:12:06] having daily debilitating migraines

[01:12:08] she was I think

[01:12:10] 28, she had two young

[01:12:12] kids they were like 4 and 5

[01:12:14] and when her husband left for work

[01:12:16] she's on the couch

[01:12:18] and her kids are taking care of her

[01:12:20] so she was just very debilitating

[01:12:22] and so she came into the office

[01:12:24] and so the main

[01:12:26] therapy that we did was work on

[01:12:28] diet and illuminating some food sensitivities

[01:12:30] and for her

[01:12:32] the two things that we really focused on

[01:12:34] were wheat and dairy products

[01:12:36] and within a month

[01:12:38] her migraines were gone

[01:12:40] so where she was living

[01:12:42] with daily migraines for

[01:12:44] several years

[01:12:46] within a month of giving up actually we found out

[01:12:48] it was wheat, her migraines were gone

[01:12:50] and she only would get a migraine

[01:12:52] after that if

[01:12:54] she had some wheat

[01:12:56] and of course as you're starting to make dietary changes

[01:12:58] you don't always understand that

[01:13:00] and

[01:13:02] you always should challenge that

[01:13:04] you don't just go and

[01:13:06] eliminate all these foods

[01:13:08] forever

[01:13:10] and not add some back in

[01:13:12] people do that though I think they get a little extreme with that

[01:13:14] they do

[01:13:16] my philosophy with this

[01:13:18] we've talked before about how I work a lot

[01:13:20] with the blood type diet

[01:13:22] and I use that as sort of

[01:13:24] a framework of understanding

[01:13:26] the foods somebody is most likely to have

[01:13:28] a sensitivity to

[01:13:30] will get rid of some of these foods strictly

[01:13:32] for a month or so

[01:13:34] that gives the immune system and I just attract time to calm down

[01:13:36] and when you add that food back in

[01:13:38] you see much more of a cause and effect reaction

[01:13:40] to see which foods really cause trouble

[01:13:42] and which foods are

[01:13:44] your body doesn't react to so much because

[01:13:46] all with patients is always to have as varied

[01:13:48] a diet as possible

[01:13:50] because that's what's going to

[01:13:52] ensure long term compliance

[01:13:54] yeah

[01:13:56] yeah

[01:13:58] how about you Dr. O'Connor what is your

[01:14:00] I mean I'm sure all of you do nutrition

[01:14:02] diet lifestyle but what else do you

[01:14:04] I'm a keto nerd

[01:14:06] tell us about that

[01:14:08] all the cool kids are doing that

[01:14:10] well I've been doing it for 20

[01:14:12] 24 years

[01:14:14] maybe you were like

[01:14:16] that was way ahead of the curve

[01:14:18] I'm at the beginning in terms of

[01:14:20] trying it out

[01:14:22] I lost well over 100 pounds

[01:14:24] in 9 months doing that

[01:14:26] that was part of my health journey

[01:14:28] I was just going to say that seems personal because it would be linked

[01:14:30] to the Hashimoto's which would be linked to a metabolic syndrome

[01:14:32] that would all be connected

[01:14:34] yes so

[01:14:36] that's kind of where I started with nutrition

[01:14:38] just kind of on a whim

[01:14:40] I was like oh I feel like garbage

[01:14:42] and I like bacon so

[01:14:44] can't be much worse than this

[01:14:46] we need to have that

[01:14:48] we need to have that clip

[01:14:50] I feel like garbage and I like bacon

[01:14:52] this is how we piece things together people

[01:14:54] right

[01:14:56] I love that so much

[01:14:58] but yeah so

[01:15:00] over the years

[01:15:02] because I'm constantly learning about

[01:15:04] that specific diet

[01:15:06] there's many different ways to do a ketogenic

[01:15:08] diet there's not just one

[01:15:10] one size fits all

[01:15:12] I didn't know that

[01:15:14] there's a very strict version

[01:15:16] and then there's a modified version

[01:15:18] and that has like blueberries

[01:15:20] and different fruits

[01:15:22] that'd be the one that I would go for

[01:15:24] the strict version makes me lose my mind

[01:15:26] I got goofy

[01:15:28] but I wasn't under a supervision of a nature cat

[01:15:30] that is the key I think with any kind of

[01:15:32] diet therapy is that

[01:15:34] you should work with somebody who knows what they're doing

[01:15:36] and knows the signs to

[01:15:38] move you in the right direction

[01:15:40] and that you listen to your body

[01:15:42] because your body gives you cues

[01:15:44] for a reason

[01:15:46] but if you don't know

[01:15:48] I've never done it

[01:15:50] my body was probably giving me cues

[01:15:52] but I wasn't working with anybody to help me interpret those cues

[01:15:54] that's what I mean

[01:15:56] so working with somebody who can say

[01:15:58] okay these are some

[01:16:00] things that you're gonna look out for

[01:16:02] I make a lot of handouts

[01:16:04] so I have a really pretty handout

[01:16:06] that I give to my patients and we can figure out

[01:16:08] macros and things and there's a food pyramid

[01:16:10] and the bottom of it is full

[01:16:12] of green leafy vegetables

[01:16:14] and then it's got all these different types of...

[01:16:16] That is not the official pyramid, madam

[01:16:18] It's my pyramid

[01:16:20] My pyramid is in

[01:16:22] removed and now it's just...

[01:16:24] It's my plate now

[01:16:26] Yeah, it's just a little plate

[01:16:28] It's got milk in the corner

[01:16:30] I didn't even know that

[01:16:32] It's funny

[01:16:34] It helps some people too

[01:16:36] My plate thing helps some people who are just being crazy

[01:16:38] Sure

[01:16:40] The right tool for the job though

[01:16:42] So my go-to is always nutrition

[01:16:44] mainly because that's the thing messed up

[01:16:46] in most human beings

[01:16:48] Americans, most Americans I think

[01:16:50] And one of the biggest things that we have control over

[01:16:52] Exactly

[01:16:54] It's hugely controllable

[01:16:56] For the most part some people still struggle with that too

[01:16:58] It's understandable

[01:17:00] But yeah, some other things

[01:17:02] I can give you examples for though

[01:17:04] I have a great story about

[01:17:06] a patient who I had

[01:17:08] He was in his 50s

[01:17:10] and he was very athletic

[01:17:12] all his whole life

[01:17:14] He was in high level collegiate football

[01:17:16] He liked to play tennis with his son

[01:17:18] Very athletic man

[01:17:20] He hurt his knee

[01:17:22] And then for years

[01:17:24] he wasn't playing tennis because he couldn't pivot

[01:17:26] and he hurt so much

[01:17:28] And I was like

[01:17:30] Your diet is good

[01:17:32] You're healthy

[01:17:34] You exercise, you take care of yourself

[01:17:36] You sleep well, your stress is low

[01:17:38] What can we kind of affect

[01:17:40] Well there's this thing that

[01:17:42] We can do in Oregon called pro-lotherapy

[01:17:44] Where we inject sugar water

[01:17:46] basically

[01:17:48] And a little bit of anesthetic

[01:17:50] Into the space of the tendons

[01:17:52] We can poke it with a needle

[01:17:54] And so the pro-low part of pro-lotherapy

[01:17:56] Is proliferate

[01:17:58] It's to basically help

[01:18:00] Trigger a healing response

[01:18:02] That the V's

[01:18:04] The healing power of nature

[01:18:06] One of our principles

[01:18:08] And so by

[01:18:10] Injecting the sugar water

[01:18:12] This irritant and then numbing it up

[01:18:14] It resets the nerve signal

[01:18:16] And then it feeds the tissue

[01:18:18] While it irritates it

[01:18:20] And brings healing to that area

[01:18:22] That normally doesn't have a great blood supply

[01:18:24] In the knee

[01:18:26] And around the tendon

[01:18:28] And he has not needed another one since

[01:18:30] And he's been playing tennis on it

[01:18:32] For a few years now

[01:18:34] No problem

[01:18:36] That's amazing

[01:18:38] But can you do that in Ohio?

[01:18:40] Sadly no

[01:18:42] Hopefully one day

[01:18:44] We'll get the full oversight

[01:18:46] Of full licensing of the state

[01:18:48] And the scope also depends on the state

[01:18:50] Not all states allow naturopathic doctors

[01:18:52] To do injections

[01:18:54] So the scope is different based on each state

[01:18:56] And we just found out two days ago

[01:18:58] That Pennsylvania now has a new

[01:19:00] Registration law

[01:19:02] So it's not a full licensure

[01:19:04] Still waiting to find out what that means

[01:19:06] But they're definitely a lot

[01:19:08] Farther ahead than we are here in Ohio

[01:19:10] Wow, look at that

[01:19:12] And they're only a couple miles over that way

[01:19:14] I believe in Vermont

[01:19:16] That you can do injections

[01:19:18] In Vermont as a license

[01:19:20] And I think that's a good point

[01:19:22] To get injections in Vermont

[01:19:24] As a licensed naturopathic doctor

[01:19:26] And since you're licensed in Vermont

[01:19:28] No problem, you can get on a plane

[01:19:30] And your patient can get on a plane

[01:19:32] For a hefty fee

[01:19:34] You fly over there, you still need a place to do it

[01:19:36] In all the equipment

[01:19:38] To be fair though, you do need to be really well trained

[01:19:40] In injections

[01:19:42] They're not easy to just pick up and do

[01:19:44] It's such a great point

[01:19:46] Nobody wants to pay me to give them injections

[01:19:48] At this point until you've been trained

[01:19:50] I think you guys have such a great respect for

[01:19:52] Just training

[01:19:54] And I get irritated when

[01:19:56] An MD says, oh I went to a weekend seminar

[01:19:58] And now I'm an acupuncturist

[01:20:00] Oh cool

[01:20:02] Maybe you are on paper

[01:20:04] But I don't know that I would go to you

[01:20:06] For acupuncture

[01:20:08] They can just call themselves an acupuncturist

[01:20:10] Well they can't call themselves an acupuncturist

[01:20:12] But they can do acupuncture

[01:20:14] Oh little

[01:20:16] Physiotherapists and chiropractors

[01:20:18] They don't have any education at this point

[01:20:20] And to me that's kind of like

[01:20:22] A very watered down form of acupuncture

[01:20:24] It's like this

[01:20:26] When I was in my car accident

[01:20:28] The MDA went to

[01:20:30] Before I even knew what was happening

[01:20:32] No he did not have consent

[01:20:34] He went boop boop, put an acupuncture needle

[01:20:36] Okay so I don't know

[01:20:38] That we can call that acupuncture

[01:20:40] Any more than if you would have given me Arnica

[01:20:42] Could we call him a homey pastor

[01:20:44] That's how I liken it

[01:20:46] Well it doesn't make you the one that really knows about it

[01:20:48] Yeah

[01:20:50] We all agree on that

[01:20:52] And on the

[01:20:54] On the note of acupuncture

[01:20:56] In Chinese medicine

[01:20:58] I've also seen where

[01:21:00] Not in Oregon because

[01:21:02] Naturopaths in Oregon have to be actually

[01:21:04] Licensed acupuncturists

[01:21:06] To use acupuncture in Oregon

[01:21:08] But in Arizona I have seen

[01:21:10] Where someone who had something called Saturday Night

[01:21:12] Palsy where you sleep with your arm over

[01:21:14] Your head and then your arm goes numb

[01:21:16] And you can't necessarily move it very well

[01:21:18] She actually had it stick for weeks

[01:21:20] Oh my

[01:21:22] She couldn't move her fingers

[01:21:24] We did electro acupuncture

[01:21:26] And she got full use of her arm back

[01:21:28] In like a couple treatments

[01:21:30] That's very cool

[01:21:32] Acupuncturists awesome, our acupuncturist in our office is

[01:21:34] Amazing

[01:21:36] He's very good at what he does

[01:21:38] Including like I've seen case studies with him

[01:21:40] You know actually helping

[01:21:42] Bunions to heal

[01:21:44] That's supposed to be impossible

[01:21:46] Right, no but the joint straightens out in the

[01:21:48] Foot

[01:21:50] Does he tell him to wear wide toe box shoes

[01:21:52] Also? I'm not sure how he does that

[01:21:54] We'll bring him on the show one of these days

[01:21:56] Yeah, you're sure

[01:21:58] Tim what do you think of wide toe box shoes

[01:22:00] Yes, I have many questions

[01:22:02] For Tim Eilif

[01:22:04] So what other therapies do you

[01:22:06] Either one of you like to use

[01:22:08] And why

[01:22:10] You know, I think that's a great way to

[01:22:12] Have a really good experience with your

[01:22:14] You know, when you're training

[01:22:16] You're repertoire do you think

[01:22:18] Really helps people have a good story about

[01:22:20] Yeah, so

[01:22:22] In that clinical nutrition like we talked

[01:22:24] About vitamins and supplement

[01:22:26] And so that's most naturopathic doctors

[01:22:28] We use a variety of those different nutrients

[01:22:30] Because

[01:22:32] We're giving the body extra nutrients

[01:22:34] For it to heal itself

[01:22:36] And so

[01:22:38] By giving 5-HTP, 5-Hidroxyterptophan

[01:22:40] Which is a precursor to the brain chemical serotonin

[01:22:42] And so by giving 5-HTP

[01:22:44] It helps to raise

[01:22:46] Helps the body to make its own serotonin

[01:22:48] Which can have lots of different benefits

[01:22:50] I mean, so it can be used

[01:22:52] To help people like we talked about earlier

[01:22:54] With the patient that's on the antidepressant

[01:22:56] Yeah

[01:22:58] Obviously we don't want to give them together

[01:23:00] Because the antidepressant drug

[01:23:02] Blocks serotonin from being eliminated

[01:23:04] The 5-HTP helps you to make more

[01:23:06] Serotonin syndrome perhaps

[01:23:08] But anyhow, so

[01:23:10] Lots of patients that

[01:23:12] Their anxiety and depression symptoms are calmed down

[01:23:14] Several patients with

[01:23:16] Debilitating hot flashes

[01:23:18] That are gone overnight

[01:23:20] Interesting

[01:23:22] Because with these menopausal symptoms

[01:23:24] One of the factors

[01:23:26] Is that those hormonal imbalances

[01:23:28] Which not just menopausal but premenstrual too

[01:23:30] Those hormonal imbalances

[01:23:32] Reduces your body's sensitivity

[01:23:34] To serotonin

[01:23:36] So it's not that you might not

[01:23:38] Necessarily be not producing enough serotonin

[01:23:40] But your body needs more

[01:23:42] To have the same effect

[01:23:44] And so by giving that extra

[01:23:46] Helping the body to make more serotonin

[01:23:48] It can help to calm down that

[01:23:50] Hot flash

[01:23:52] Also help them sleep better

[01:23:54] And be in moods much better

[01:23:56] And so something that can be really great

[01:23:58] Yeah, that's a great example

[01:24:00] Of using pretty simple substance

[01:24:02] Anything, any other modalities?

[01:24:04] That you'd like to speak on?

[01:24:06] Well I actually just wanted to

[01:24:08] So what he's talking about too

[01:24:10] With increasing, especially for

[01:24:12] Hot flashes and everything

[01:24:14] The serotonin

[01:24:16] It's interesting from my point of view

[01:24:18] Working with a lot of female

[01:24:20] Hormonal imbalances patients

[01:24:22] Is that it's for women who are still

[01:24:24] Menstruating and having a cycle

[01:24:26] And want to keep having a cycle

[01:24:28] They're not toward the end

[01:24:30] Of the menopause or postmenopause

[01:24:32] The only time that a woman's body

[01:24:34] Makes progesterone is when

[01:24:36] We ovulate

[01:24:38] And so that progesterone is also upstream

[01:24:40] From 5-HTP

[01:24:42] So helping women to ovulate

[01:24:44] Which a lot of women don't know

[01:24:46] That when they take oral birth control pills

[01:24:48] For example you don't ovulate

[01:24:50] That is something that really should come

[01:24:52] With every pack

[01:24:54] So you don't ovulate, you don't make progesterone

[01:24:56] You don't make 5-HTPs

[01:24:58] That's for acne or whatever

[01:25:00] Because

[01:25:02] The key with working with

[01:25:04] Very young

[01:25:06] Blossoming women that are just starting to have periods

[01:25:08] Is that the first periods are going to be hard

[01:25:10] Because you're not ovulating yet

[01:25:12] So your estrogen is all over the place

[01:25:14] And then you have to wait for that

[01:25:16] Progesterone to come

[01:25:18] So sometimes if you add some

[01:25:20] Certain nutrients

[01:25:22] Even seed cycling can be really helpful

[01:25:24] Because seeds have actually quite a lot

[01:25:26] Of like hormonal action

[01:25:28] Or you can do

[01:25:30] I mean there's like a bunch of different things

[01:25:32] You can do with nutritional supplements

[01:25:34] That will help young women

[01:25:36] While they're on their way

[01:25:38] To getting their regular period

[01:25:40] With a regular ovulation

[01:25:42] So they get regular progesterone

[01:25:44] And they feel better and they're not like

[01:25:46] Oh I'm anxious and I feel like I'm going to explode

[01:25:48] And die and I don't know why

[01:25:50] But the doctors said take birth control pills

[01:25:52] Or even some of the more well meaning ones

[01:25:54] That will prescribe progesterone

[01:25:56] But they won't tell them

[01:25:58] That in order to work with your cycle

[01:26:00] You need to only take it two weeks out of the month

[01:26:02] That's right, that's right

[01:26:04] Yes, yeah, cycling

[01:26:06] Yeah I used to work with a bioidentical

[01:26:08] Hormones and yeah

[01:26:10] Fixed a lot of prescriptions

[01:26:12] It's confusing

[01:26:14] It is, even for

[01:26:16] For me when I first started working

[01:26:18] With bioidentical hormone replacement therapy

[01:26:20] Which I can't do

[01:26:22] Exactly in Ohio

[01:26:24] But I do something

[01:26:26] Like it using nutrition

[01:26:28] And supplements

[01:26:30] There's a lot of different things you can do

[01:26:32] But yeah when you first start out

[01:26:34] It is, it's a whole other world

[01:26:36] Of information

[01:26:38] That is really important to understand

[01:26:40] Every aspect of

[01:26:42] Because there's so many pathways

[01:26:44] But yeah being able to be the one

[01:26:46] Who knows about that for the patient's sake

[01:26:48] Makes them feel more at ease

[01:26:50] You know you can give them that confidence

[01:26:52] That they're going to get their periods back

[01:26:54] Or they're going to be able to have babies

[01:26:56] Or that they're not going to have to

[01:26:58] Suffer through perimenopause

[01:27:00] Or that there's a reason that they feel like this

[01:27:02] They're not going crazy

[01:27:04] I love that, it's a great example

[01:27:06] Even for the patients that

[01:27:08] Have a family history of

[01:27:10] Breast cancer and things

[01:27:12] To be able to reduce their risk factors there

[01:27:14] Yes and there's a lot of women

[01:27:16] Who have come to me and they say

[01:27:18] I, you know I'm having a bad time

[01:27:20] With perimenopause but I have cancer in my family

[01:27:24] What do I do?

[01:27:26] Well there's definitely answers for you

[01:27:28] And it's not what it was in the 80s

[01:27:30] I'll tell you that

[01:27:32] Alright so there are six

[01:27:34] Principles of naturopathic medicine

[01:27:36] And we covered most of them

[01:27:38] But we want to go in a little bit deeper

[01:27:40] On the one, so the six principles are

[01:27:42] The healing power of nature

[01:27:44] Identifying treat causes

[01:27:46] Doctor as teacher

[01:27:48] Treat the whole person

[01:27:50] Prevention and first do no harm

[01:27:52] I definitely want to touch on first do no harm

[01:27:54] But before that

[01:27:56] Let's talk about the healing power

[01:27:58] Which would, what would suppression

[01:28:00] I want to talk about suppression because I'd love to talk about it

[01:28:02] Because most drugs

[01:28:04] Either stimulate or suppress

[01:28:06] Which is a whole different energy

[01:28:08] You know giving a medication

[01:28:10] You're going to stimulate or suppress

[01:28:12] You're not going to get underneath or like treat

[01:28:14] But regardless of whether it's stimulating

[01:28:16] Suppressing is still suppressing because it's just getting rid of the symptom

[01:28:18] And that would be what I would call

[01:28:20] Suppression is

[01:28:22] Giving a bandaid to get rid of the symptom

[01:28:24] That's fair

[01:28:26] Not actually healing the body

[01:28:28] I do a lot of that, I give in bottles

[01:28:30] And really pretty pills

[01:28:32] Like suppressive chemistry

[01:28:34] Pharmacology versus

[01:28:38] There's another word that I can't think of

[01:28:40] But like even herbs have pharmacologic

[01:28:42] Pharmacologic action versus

[01:28:44] Like supportive or tonic or

[01:28:46] Nutrative action

[01:28:48] That's a great point, yes they do

[01:28:50] Because herbs can't act like the first drugs were

[01:28:52] Herbs, but they weren't

[01:28:54] Just doing one thing though

[01:28:56] Because we don't know all the constituents

[01:28:58] Where the energetics that are part of

[01:29:00] Each plant which is a living thing

[01:29:02] Which is so different than finding the plant

[01:29:04] What we tend to do

[01:29:06] Which I think is a bit aggressive and short-sighted

[01:29:08] Yes, oh well let's go find

[01:29:10] The active ingredient

[01:29:12] When maybe, yes there is an active ingredient

[01:29:14] And we can take it out and test it

[01:29:16] Go through all of that

[01:29:18] Sure we can, but perhaps

[01:29:20] We've thrown away pieces

[01:29:22] That were supportive

[01:29:24] Prevented a side effect, we don't know

[01:29:26] Definitely

[01:29:28] We don't know

[01:29:30] So suppression, you

[01:29:32] The naturopathic physician

[01:29:34] Does not suppress

[01:29:36] A symptom

[01:29:38] We talked about that earlier, we can

[01:29:40] And sometimes it happens

[01:29:42] But

[01:29:44] This is what I was having

[01:29:46] Like a naturally naturopathic mindset

[01:29:48] Even though I went to pharmacy school and practiced as a pharmacist

[01:29:50] I always believed

[01:29:52] And then found practitioners that supported it

[01:29:54] That the fever is your friend

[01:29:56] Right

[01:29:58] So in the traditional system

[01:30:00] I think people believe

[01:30:02] That a fever is a disease

[01:30:04] That must be stopped

[01:30:06] And treated

[01:30:08] It's not a disease, it is a symptom

[01:30:10] By and large

[01:30:12] But it's part of your body's

[01:30:14] Healing process

[01:30:16] It's about heating up the body

[01:30:18] Higher than that virus can handle

[01:30:20] So that virus cannot live

[01:30:22] And that fever might not do

[01:30:24] The full job

[01:30:26] But that's the point of the fever

[01:30:28] And we learned that with AIDS research

[01:30:30] We didn't know that before AIDS research

[01:30:32] And I was a little baby pharmacist

[01:30:34] In the 80s and we were just learning about HIV

[01:30:36] And we learned that

[01:30:38] When I was working at

[01:30:40] MetroHealth Medical Center

[01:30:42] Someone came in and taught us this

[01:30:44] And I remember sitting there going

[01:30:46] Well, if we know that the fever is our friend

[01:30:48] Then we can expect a really

[01:30:50] Dramatic decrease

[01:30:52] In the sales of acetaminophen

[01:30:54] Which did not happen, but there again

[01:30:56] Is the difference between what we know scientifically

[01:30:58] And maybe

[01:31:00] Like a kind of money driving

[01:31:02] Of course

[01:31:04] What it comes down to

[01:31:06] Is the fear

[01:31:08] Of that fever

[01:31:10] Causing a seizure

[01:31:12] Can we please address that?

[01:31:14] Yes, so

[01:31:16] The likelihood of a fever

[01:31:18] Causing seizures or other

[01:31:20] Feveral diseases

[01:31:22] Isn't typically

[01:31:24] Based on how high the fever goes

[01:31:26] You could have a 105 degree

[01:31:28] Fever and not have

[01:31:30] Any

[01:31:32] Undue problems

[01:31:34] The problem

[01:31:36] Tends to happen when the fever rises

[01:31:38] Too quickly

[01:31:40] And so that

[01:31:42] That very quick rise in the temperature

[01:31:44] Is what typically causes problems

[01:31:46] What could potentially cause that

[01:31:48] And what about if the fever goes up and down

[01:31:50] And up and down with cyclical

[01:31:52] Medication, can that cause a seizure?

[01:31:54] Like it's high, so you give a medication

[01:31:56] Then it comes back down low

[01:31:58] And it goes off

[01:32:00] Well before you're allowed to

[01:32:02] Or whatever, maybe it breaks through

[01:32:04] Could that also cause a seizure?

[01:32:06] I don't know

[01:32:08] I just think this is something

[01:32:10] That I hear all the time

[01:32:12] That everyone is so afraid of

[01:32:14] Feveral seizures

[01:32:16] And always do what your doctor says

[01:32:18] I guess we should always say that

[01:32:20] Do whatever your doctor says

[01:32:22] But we're just talking about

[01:32:24] Just things we know from research

[01:32:26] And a helper of the immune system

[01:32:28] Correct

[01:32:30] What other examples

[01:32:32] Can you give where suppression

[01:32:34] We typically in the allopathic system

[01:32:36] Suppress and you would see a problem

[01:32:38] With I know it's any symptom

[01:32:40] But what's another big one?

[01:32:42] That's really probably

[01:32:44] The number one

[01:32:46] That is getting into the way

[01:32:48] Of the healing process

[01:32:50] And I think of an example too

[01:32:52] Like sometimes when my kids would be throwing up

[01:32:54] So that they wouldn't be fearful of

[01:32:56] Omniing or think it's such a strange thing

[01:32:58] I would say do you want the bad stuff in or out

[01:33:00] Like your body is trying to get rid of

[01:33:02] Something obviously there'd be a time

[01:33:04] Where it could be pathological and you need to intervene

[01:33:06] With a medication but sometimes I wonder

[01:33:08] If we're stopping something

[01:33:10] That the body is just naturally

[01:33:12] Knows hey I

[01:33:14] Something is wrong I gotta get rid of it

[01:33:16] And then we don't wanna necessarily keep it in

[01:33:18] In the same token

[01:33:20] Costs a presence

[01:33:22] That's a good example

[01:33:24] Right so you don't want to cough

[01:33:26] But the coughing is trying to eliminate mucus

[01:33:28] Yup

[01:33:30] That's a great example

[01:33:32] If you suppress the cough too much

[01:33:34] That mucus is gonna stay in the lungs more

[01:33:36] Which really bothers me because most of the

[01:33:38] Over-the-counter medications have

[01:33:40] An expectorant and a suppressant

[01:33:42] Where's the cough coming up or down

[01:33:44] Right right like a lot of times

[01:33:46] We just wanna thin it out and then they put

[01:33:48] This other stuff on top of it and the people

[01:33:50] At the earlier point are shopping

[01:33:52] The front of the box which is the benefits

[01:33:54] And not the back of the box

[01:33:56] Which is the features and the chemistry

[01:33:58] And don't understand you don't need

[01:34:00] Two things

[01:34:02] For this cough that you perhaps need

[01:34:04] To just thin it out then out the cough

[01:34:06] To help the body eliminate it

[01:34:08] Anything else on supression

[01:34:10] Yeah actually a more complex

[01:34:12] Sort of example with

[01:34:14] With regard to type 2

[01:34:16] Diabetes for example

[01:34:18] Is so when someone has type 2 diabetes

[01:34:21] They have

[01:34:23] Their blood sugar is too high

[01:34:25] So typically

[01:34:27] When and their pancreas

[01:34:29] Is still working

[01:34:31] They're making insulin maybe they're resistant

[01:34:33] To that insulin and that's why their blood

[01:34:35] Sugar keeps going up which the cough is

[01:34:37] Meaning the insulin can't get in the cell

[01:34:38] Sweat hangs out in the blood

[01:34:39] Yeah so your blood sugar goes too high

[01:34:41] Then you have like neuropathy and all these

[01:34:43] Different things happening because the

[01:34:45] Blood doesn't like to be syrup it wants

[01:34:47] To get in the cell

[01:34:49] So you have to have a good amount of blood

[01:34:51] Of course so with allopathic medicine

[01:34:53] Usually they're giving

[01:34:55] Glucose lowering drugs

[01:34:57] Which would be insulin or

[01:34:59] Gluposide

[01:35:01] Right so you can have ones that

[01:35:03] Make you flush out more

[01:35:05] Okay okay oh the second generation

[01:35:07] Ones yes yes

[01:35:09] And then you can have ones that

[01:35:11] Are increasing insulin which just

[01:35:13] Further pushes the problem along

[01:35:15] So if the things are addressing

[01:35:17] Kind of the root of that

[01:35:19] They're suppressing symptoms and making

[01:35:21] It so that their blood glucose is a

[01:35:23] Normal level

[01:35:25] But the imbalance

[01:35:27] Is still present

[01:35:29] So they still have

[01:35:31] Long term disease

[01:35:33] Outcomes

[01:35:35] You know eye disease neuropathy

[01:35:37] So you know not less handsomely

[01:35:39] Because it's not just about the glucose being high

[01:35:41] But also the insulin being high

[01:35:43] So yeah the blood glucose is

[01:35:45] Going to be in a low level

[01:35:49] And on top of that the lab value

[01:35:51] Which is considered normal

[01:35:53] Good is 6.5 or less

[01:35:55] That's the a1c

[01:35:57] Yeah so 6.5% a1c

[01:35:59] That's the blood sugar over

[01:36:01] Three months just to clarify

[01:36:03] For anyone listening so

[01:36:05] It's a really good measure

[01:36:07] To see how someone is

[01:36:09] Doing but it doesn't tell you

[01:36:11] valleys of that person's blood glucose. So you don't know if they're crashing out or

[01:36:16] if they're going half blind because their blood sugar is so high. And then you also don't

[01:36:21] know like you're not addressing necessarily what they're eating, which if you can keep

[01:36:25] a tighter control over blood glucose, you have more longevity just by default because

[01:36:31] too much insulin and too much blood sugar both are huge risk factors for heart disease.

[01:36:38] So basically an endocrinologist who's working with a diabetic and just doing the regular

[01:36:44] like medications high carb diet by the way, the American Diabetes Association diet is

[01:36:51] a 60 65% calories from carbs diet.

[01:36:56] That's it sounds like madness to me.

[01:36:59] It is but it's for type one and type two. So you're talking about people having really

[01:37:05] high insulin all the time to to deal with the carbs and you know, and they're like, well,

[01:37:12] I have to eat this. And then they eat six times a day, which also keeps your insulin high

[01:37:17] so you become more resistant to it. So you can see that this suppression of the A1C

[01:37:23] is not addressing anything at all. In fact, it's taking them way into you know, you're

[01:37:28] talking about in in stage, you know, kidney failure, heart failure, you know, limb issues,

[01:37:36] you know, reputations, blindness, but first do no harm.

[01:37:40] Right? I mean, isn't isn't that medical doctors? Don't they also say first do no harm?

[01:37:46] Well they don't have to say the Hippocratic Oath anymore.

[01:37:49] Really?

[01:37:50] No. Yeah, it's been several years since that which that has to that has to

[01:37:54] that deals with not doing harm. Correct?

[01:37:57] I don't remember when that was.

[01:37:59] I think it was a pharmaceutical industry, but that is that is so interesting because

[01:38:06] to me what you just found out was a great yes, a little bit complicated example of

[01:38:11] the problem with suppression as opposed to treating underlying metabolic issues, but

[01:38:17] also down the road the harm that is going to be done to that patient, which of course

[01:38:21] brings me back to you still have the principle of do no harm.

[01:38:26] Correct.

[01:38:27] Thank goodness.

[01:38:28] Yeah, it's it's so important to when you're looking at a patient's health and how to move

[01:38:35] them in the right direction, you don't always have to go with the big guns.

[01:38:40] Sometimes you can work with the most like we talked about both of us do a lot with

[01:38:44] nutrition and eating properly and exercising all these things are very minimal harm and

[01:38:54] can be very powerful in helping the body to heal.

[01:38:57] So to just jump to medications that might have side effects and cause problems when

[01:39:05] you can do things that just support your lifestyle to help your body to heal on its own,

[01:39:12] that's always going to be the best route.

[01:39:14] Right.

[01:39:14] Yes.

[01:39:15] Oh my goodness.

[01:39:16] So also going off of that, those therapies, you know, nutrition, exercise, water, sleep,

[01:39:24] spirituality, all those things, not only low risk and high reward, they give patients

[01:39:31] agency and ownership.

[01:39:33] Right.

[01:39:34] And that's the biggest thing for me in my practice is reminding patients,

[01:39:40] you came here because you want to take control back over your health and your autonomy matters

[01:39:47] to me.

[01:39:47] Your decision making matters to me, your brain matters to me like your agency

[01:39:52] and your empowerment matters to me.

[01:39:55] Plus it's about you correct the problem.

[01:39:59] Well, you need to be doing all these things so that that problem doesn't come back.

[01:40:03] That's right.

[01:40:04] And that's one of those things that a lot of patients don't understand too is when

[01:40:08] you're talking about remission versus cure.

[01:40:11] Most diseases can't be cured, especially chronic diseases.

[01:40:14] Say if you have diabetes, you can reverse it and your blood sugars can be perfect,

[01:40:20] but you can't necessarily cure that because once you go back to your old bad habits,

[01:40:25] it's going to come back.

[01:40:26] Right.

[01:40:26] So you've never, you know, so you can, an infection can be cured.

[01:40:31] There are certain things like that that can be cured.

[01:40:33] And sometimes with surgery, you can cure a cancer or different things.

[01:40:37] But for most chronic diseases, it is about taking ownership of your health

[01:40:44] in order to own and take care of yourself and maintain long-term.

[01:40:50] Right.

[01:40:51] And I like to tell my patients that the more they work on those lifestyle factors,

[01:40:57] the less supplements they need to take.

[01:40:58] That's right.

[01:40:58] Sure.

[01:40:59] And, you know, as we did, the other thing we didn't really cover much was

[01:41:05] the principle of doctor's teacher.

[01:41:07] And that's so important for each other.

[01:41:10] I think we got that though.

[01:41:11] Like I really feel like I just listening to you and I'm your patient,

[01:41:17] like you're teaching me things that empower me.

[01:41:20] And now oh, I understand so I can connect the dots for myself.

[01:41:24] It is very empowering to understand and to have someone in your corner.

[01:41:28] And the word doctor means teacher.

[01:41:31] And I think in the traditional system, they've gotten so far away.

[01:41:35] In fact, we don't say doctor.

[01:41:36] We say prescriber.

[01:41:38] We don't even say physician.

[01:41:40] We say who is your prescriber?

[01:41:43] Isn't that amazing?

[01:41:43] Well, because a lot of times you might have an nurse practitioner or a physician's assistant.

[01:41:47] But the bottom line is who's giving you drugs, medications.

[01:41:52] Who's prescribing?

[01:41:53] It's very interesting.

[01:41:54] We've gotten away from that word for a good reason.

[01:41:57] Because there is more time spent prescribing than there is teaching.

[01:42:02] Right.

[01:42:03] And as an atropathic doctor, if we're doing our job right and getting our patients better,

[01:42:08] we're teaching people how to not need us so much.

[01:42:11] Yes.

[01:42:11] So that they can take care of themselves and come back if something else happens.

[01:42:17] Or they just need to get back on track.

[01:42:19] But we're giving them the tools to help understand how they can keep their bodies healthy.

[01:42:26] Yes.

[01:42:26] I love that.

[01:42:27] In fact, I think when I've, one of the, well, I've hired you for a couple things.

[01:42:31] But the blood type diet didn't really want to spend the time or the energy.

[01:42:35] So I hired you so I could come in and you were going to give me the low down on the

[01:42:39] blood type diet.

[01:42:40] And that's what I wanted.

[01:42:41] I didn't want to wade through all of it.

[01:42:42] Right.

[01:42:42] I knew was going to help me just tell me the basics and how I can apply them

[01:42:46] to myself with tips and tricks from your vast experience with that.

[01:42:50] Yeah.

[01:42:51] You were teaching me.

[01:42:51] I hired you to teach and give advice.

[01:42:55] Thank you for joining us for this podcast.

[01:42:57] Mary and Dr. Ted want to remind you to use the internet wisely and to always be sure

[01:43:00] to consult with your medical provider with any questions or concerns that you may have

[01:43:04] as you work towards your wellness goals.

[01:43:06] We look forward to sharing more content with you soon.

[01:43:08] Thanks for listening.