Low-Fat Lies and Cholesterol Myths: What Doctors Get Wrong

[00:00:00] In all my years as a retail pharmacist, one of my biggest frustrations is the bad dietary advice my patients are given often by their doctors. It's so disheartening to watch people follow guidance that's not only outdated, but sometimes completely contradictory to what we see in the real world. Time and time again, I've had to step in and offer a different perspective, backed by both research and experience.

[00:00:24] I can relate to that, Mary. After over two decades as a naturopathic doctor, a big part of my practice has been helping patients to develop healthy eating habits to support their overall health and well-being. But honestly, half the battle is undoing the misinformation that their doctors and the media and others have given to them. So it's frustrating, but it's also rewarding when they realize how much better they can feel with the right guidance.

[00:00:51] Today, we're diving into four common myths that medical doctors often promote as truth. These are myths that frankly hold people back from making real positive changes in their health.

[00:01:03] Exactly. We're talking about bad advice, like the idea that diet does not significantly affect most medical conditions, or that low-fat diets are needed to lower cholesterol. Advice that can often be more harmful than good.

[00:01:18] Let's not forget the misconception that nuts and seeds can cause diverticulitis, and the myth that keeping sugar on hand is the best way to treat hypoglycemia or low blood sugar.

[00:01:30] If you've ever been confused by conflicting dietary advice, stick around.

[00:01:35] We're going to break down these myths and give you real-world facts backed by science and our combined years of experience.

[00:01:44] Let's dive in.

[00:01:50] You're listening to Take On Healthcare with Ted Suzellis and Mary Sheehan.

[00:01:55] Do you think eating lots of fat increases your cholesterol levels?

[00:01:58] Have you been told that when your blood sugar gets low, the best thing to do is eat something sweet?

[00:02:03] If you answered yes, you're not alone.

[00:02:06] Even many doctors still believe things that aren't true.

[00:02:08] On today's podcast, our hosts take on the medical myths that could be keeping you sick.

[00:02:16] Ted, I feel like this show is just so in your wheelhouse since your education is entirely, well, not entirely, but mostly based on where health begins.

[00:02:27] Right.

[00:02:28] In the gut.

[00:02:29] Yeah.

[00:02:30] This is for you.

[00:02:31] This is...

[00:02:32] Okay.

[00:02:32] I'll just sit here.

[00:02:33] I'll try not to ruin it then.

[00:02:34] You take it.

[00:02:36] And also the myth that...

[00:02:38] The biggest myth that I see, truly, not only bad advice and misinformation that we're going to get into, but the baseline underlying current of all this is, oh, it doesn't matter what you eat.

[00:02:50] Right.

[00:02:50] Just take the pills.

[00:02:51] Yeah.

[00:02:52] Whatever the pills may be for.

[00:02:53] It doesn't matter.

[00:02:54] No.

[00:02:55] Obviously, that's for a lot of different reasons.

[00:02:57] Yeah.

[00:02:58] Let's break down some of the reasons.

[00:02:59] I think that would help since we like to take on the big picture because we don't want people to think their doctors are ignorant or whatever.

[00:03:07] They just...

[00:03:07] There's reasons why this myth is perpetuated.

[00:03:12] The diet doesn't matter.

[00:03:13] Right.

[00:03:14] Yeah.

[00:03:14] I mean, first off is most doctors don't get hardly...

[00:03:18] They get hardly any education in nutrition.

[00:03:22] Which is astounding.

[00:03:23] Right.

[00:03:24] But true.

[00:03:25] Right.

[00:03:25] So, how can they give you good medical advice on nutrition when they don't understand it themselves?

[00:03:33] Right.

[00:03:34] And, you know, with that too, they defer to the dieticians.

[00:03:39] And, but honestly, I guess the thing that frustrates me the most is that it seems like all medical advice conventional is guided by outside interests.

[00:03:56] Oh, yes.

[00:03:57] That's such a great point.

[00:03:59] Who is influencing your doctor and what do they have in it?

[00:04:04] It's that old adage, follow the money.

[00:04:06] Right.

[00:04:06] And it's not just your doctor, but just, you know...

[00:04:08] Everybody.

[00:04:09] The nurses, the dieticians.

[00:04:11] Right.

[00:04:11] Everybody's kind of influenced by people that have an agenda.

[00:04:14] Right.

[00:04:14] Going from, like, say, the food pyramid...

[00:04:17] Oh, I was just going to say that.

[00:04:18] ...to, you know, to whatever the plate thing is now.

[00:04:22] And...

[00:04:22] Right.

[00:04:23] I'm hearing a lot of interesting testimonials online about the food pyramid and people coming forward.

[00:04:30] Yeah.

[00:04:31] Various wellness nutrition leaders and kind of trying to blow the whistle on how bad the food pyramid is.

[00:04:38] Well, that's like when you look at the food pyramid, when it still was the food pyramid.

[00:04:44] Oh, I remember it.

[00:04:45] They still, you know, at the very top, that small little piece was still, like, sweets and sugar or something.

[00:04:51] Right.

[00:04:52] You know, so they included that as an essential part of your diet.

[00:04:55] Oh, you know, and we never thought of it that way.

[00:04:58] Isn't that funny?

[00:04:58] Yeah.

[00:04:59] But you're right, because the pyramid was supposed to be what you should eat...

[00:05:03] Exactly.

[00:05:03] ...in what amounts.

[00:05:06] Right.

[00:05:06] So...

[00:05:07] Yeah, you had the vegetables and fruits.

[00:05:09] I never even thought about that, that it's so...

[00:05:10] We can't leave that out.

[00:05:11] Right.

[00:05:11] When really, most of us should not be consuming.

[00:05:15] Was alcohol in there?

[00:05:16] I can't even remember.

[00:05:17] I can't remember.

[00:05:18] But, yeah, I just...

[00:05:19] My goodness.

[00:05:20] As we were researching for this episode, it just hit me even more, because when we get

[00:05:26] to talking about fat and diet, and as we were...

[00:05:33] I was reading through your notes, and you had a question about that the American Heart

[00:05:37] Association had gotten rid of cholesterol as something that you should avoid in your foods.

[00:05:44] Do people know that they got rid of that?

[00:05:46] What?

[00:05:47] Well, I went to the American Heart Association's website.

[00:05:50] Okay.

[00:05:51] And, no, I couldn't find that, but I found an interesting, a big piece of their website.

[00:05:57] There was a big link for the Good Egg Foundation or something.

[00:06:02] Oh, the eggs are back on the nice list?

[00:06:04] Right.

[00:06:05] So, they have a partnership with Big Egg to be able to, you know, to be able to get that

[00:06:12] influence so that eggs, you know, look better.

[00:06:14] Now, I don't have anything against eggs, and I think eggs are a good part of people's diet.

[00:06:19] I love eggs.

[00:06:20] But the fact that we're, you know, we're looking at industry influence and lobbyists to be able

[00:06:28] to decide what's healthy and what's not, not what the science really says.

[00:06:32] And that sentence right there, like, people should be, like, horrified.

[00:06:36] Right.

[00:06:37] And I can't even think about that too much.

[00:06:38] I'm so horrified about how much influence is not scientific at all.

[00:06:44] Right.

[00:06:44] You and I love science.

[00:06:46] Yeah.

[00:06:46] Okay, so the doctors don't know about nutrition because they're not taught in a medical school,

[00:06:50] and there's outside influences that are really kind of being presented as facts.

[00:06:57] Right.

[00:06:58] And we've been down this road before.

[00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:00] Where we were all told that opioids aren't addictive.

[00:07:04] Right.

[00:07:05] We're like, okay.

[00:07:06] So, it's the same thing that's happening.

[00:07:08] Yeah, but that also goes along with the other big influence is the drug industry.

[00:07:13] Yes.

[00:07:14] Because just like, I always talk about this.

[00:07:17] I probably have several times on this podcast, but you watch, well, when they did have commercials

[00:07:23] for Lipitor.

[00:07:25] Oh, I haven't seen any of those.

[00:07:27] I haven't either, but...

[00:07:28] For a while.

[00:07:29] There are many.

[00:07:30] But I remember that, you know, they'd have this guy running and trying to eat healthy and

[00:07:36] stuff.

[00:07:36] And at the end of the commercial, after, or I don't know if it's before or after all the

[00:07:42] side effect list, they say diet and exercise is really important, but you're still going

[00:07:47] to need your Lipitor.

[00:07:48] Exactly.

[00:07:49] Or the new phrase I'm hearing with like the drugs for diabetes, if diet and exercise aren't

[00:07:55] enough, it's kind of like implying, we know they're not going to be enough.

[00:07:59] But really, what have they been told?

[00:08:02] Eat a healthy diet and exercise.

[00:08:03] Off I go then.

[00:08:05] It's too confusing for people.

[00:08:08] It's simple, really.

[00:08:10] The rules are simple.

[00:08:11] Change is hard and the advice is confusing.

[00:08:15] Exactly.

[00:08:15] That's why we're here.

[00:08:16] Right.

[00:08:16] Doing this thing.

[00:08:17] Yeah.

[00:08:18] And too often, because the doctors don't really know, they just throw out that blanket statement,

[00:08:24] we'll start eating healthy and exercise.

[00:08:26] I'm like, okay.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:28] People don't know.

[00:08:28] You're somebody that's obese and the doctor totally ignores all of the other health conditions

[00:08:35] and like, you need to lose weight.

[00:08:37] That's all there is.

[00:08:38] They're not even going to touch the patient and help them.

[00:08:41] Exactly.

[00:08:42] And along those lines, I think it's been very interesting over the past couple of years where

[00:08:47] the word doctor is kind of not used as much.

[00:08:50] Right.

[00:08:50] It's a prescriber.

[00:08:52] Genius marketing.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:54] Who is prescribing?

[00:08:55] That means writing a prescription for a medication.

[00:08:58] And the word doctor means teacher.

[00:09:01] Right.

[00:09:01] So truly, maybe this is, if people really understand what's happening, a good thing.

[00:09:06] That these people are prescribers.

[00:09:08] So when you hire somebody, are you hiring a doctor or are you hiring a prescriber?

[00:09:13] Right.

[00:09:13] What do you want?

[00:09:14] But the other part of that is they're trying to unify doctors and nurse practitioners and

[00:09:24] PAs so that people realize they're all on the same level.

[00:09:28] And I'm not just seeing the doctor's nurse.

[00:09:31] It's not just an LPN, some basic level nurse.

[00:09:35] It's somebody that is a prescriber.

[00:09:38] Oh, that's an interesting take on it.

[00:09:40] All on the same level.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:43] And therefore, all of equal status and all giving the same advice, which is given to

[00:09:47] them by Big Pharma.

[00:09:50] Right.

[00:09:50] And now perhaps Big Egg.

[00:09:51] Okay.

[00:09:52] So, all right.

[00:09:54] So can we go into then the evidence to support diet's role?

[00:09:59] It seems kind of silly that we have to do that because I was thinking about Hippocrates,

[00:10:04] who is the father of modern medicine, who said that, what did he say?

[00:10:08] Health begins in the gut or disease begins in the gut?

[00:10:10] I think he said disease.

[00:10:11] All disease begins in the gut.

[00:10:12] All disease begins in the gut.

[00:10:14] Yeah.

[00:10:14] So what was going into people's guts?

[00:10:17] Not drugs.

[00:10:17] They didn't have them then.

[00:10:18] No.

[00:10:19] Food.

[00:10:19] Right.

[00:10:19] Okay.

[00:10:20] So we lost that.

[00:10:22] Yeah.

[00:10:24] Totally.

[00:10:25] We've lost that.

[00:10:26] And so to me, it seems very common sense that human beings eat food.

[00:10:30] Food is medicine.

[00:10:32] Food can influence how you feel, act, and are in the world and all of your markers of good

[00:10:38] health.

[00:10:39] And yet, here we are needing to back up to me, which is so obvious.

[00:10:44] It's like, what are we going to have to back up next?

[00:10:47] So, you know, we've got to breathe.

[00:10:47] We've got to breathe.

[00:10:48] We've got to breathe.

[00:10:48] Right.

[00:10:49] We've got to breathe.

[00:10:51] We've got to breathe.

[00:10:52] Right.

[00:10:52] So, go ahead.

[00:10:53] Tell me about the obvious.

[00:10:56] Well...

[00:10:57] And it's really science, but...

[00:10:58] Yeah.

[00:10:58] I mean, I don't...

[00:11:00] To actually go through and specifically talk about studies, I mean, there's so much.

[00:11:08] There's so many.

[00:11:08] It's so...

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:09] There's just plenty, plenty, plenty.

[00:11:11] Right.

[00:11:11] So, what is one then as we go through perhaps like the various like disease states or, you

[00:11:19] know, things that go wrong with people, maybe that's when they'll come into play.

[00:11:23] But the bottom line is there is science behind the obvious.

[00:11:27] Right.

[00:11:28] Than a healthy diet that...

[00:11:30] What was that new thing, though?

[00:11:31] I was hearing about processed foods aren't so bad.

[00:11:34] Did you hear?

[00:11:35] No, I did not.

[00:11:36] Because now it's just not processed.

[00:11:39] It's ultra processed.

[00:11:40] Right.

[00:11:41] Right.

[00:11:41] So, we have to have levels of the poisons.

[00:11:44] Right.

[00:11:44] Right.

[00:11:45] Well, because...

[00:11:45] Well, I'm eating a processed diet, but it's not an ultra processed diet.

[00:11:49] How bad could it be?

[00:11:50] And people don't even know what...

[00:11:52] I think a lot of times what processing means.

[00:11:56] Right.

[00:11:56] Well, I mean, processed diet includes things like bread.

[00:12:00] I know.

[00:12:01] Yeah.

[00:12:01] Anything...

[00:12:02] Anything that is not in its original form is somewhat processed.

[00:12:07] Okay.

[00:12:07] So, if I made bread from scratch at home using organic flour...

[00:12:11] Right.

[00:12:11] And everything is good.

[00:12:13] It's still processed.

[00:12:13] Yes.

[00:12:14] So, I can't really eat that alone.

[00:12:16] Right.

[00:12:17] I'd have to bring in vegetables.

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:19] For example.

[00:12:19] Right.

[00:12:20] Exactly.

[00:12:20] All right.

[00:12:21] Yeah.

[00:12:22] And so, I mean, with supplements, we're still looking...

[00:12:26] I look at them still as like food.

[00:12:29] But you don't look at them to replace food.

[00:12:31] No.

[00:12:31] No.

[00:12:32] There's a big difference there.

[00:12:33] There is.

[00:12:34] There is.

[00:12:34] And so, yeah.

[00:12:35] So, with my way of thinking here, it's we're giving different supplements.

[00:12:42] A lot of the supplements I'm giving patients are the building blocks of our foods anyhow,

[00:12:48] or things that are already in our body.

[00:12:49] So, I'm just giving higher levels to help the body to heal of these different nutrients,

[00:12:55] whether it is a probiotic or certain vitamins or other amino acids to help improve certain

[00:13:01] functions in the body.

[00:13:03] But with the understanding that this is helping the body to heal, and I want to be able to

[00:13:10] maintain your health long-term through diet.

[00:13:14] Love that.

[00:13:15] That's very well said.

[00:13:18] And I think something people don't think about, they don't have the supplements in the proper

[00:13:23] perspective.

[00:13:23] But that's what happens when you can, you know, kind of just buy them in the free market and

[00:13:27] getting advice from wherever.

[00:13:29] Right.

[00:13:30] Yeah.

[00:13:30] Yeah.

[00:13:31] And yeah, so it's one of those things that it is a big problem.

[00:13:36] We need to understand that the supplements and the drugs are not a replacement for our food.

[00:13:45] Correct.

[00:13:46] Exactly.

[00:13:47] Yes.

[00:13:47] And then people have to, and I know we're busy, and I know that's a big pushback.

[00:13:52] Right.

[00:13:53] Busy and they're expensive.

[00:13:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:56] And it is more work.

[00:13:58] Right.

[00:13:58] To cut vegetables.

[00:13:59] We have a saying in our house that cut vegetables get eaten.

[00:14:02] Yeah.

[00:14:02] Right.

[00:14:03] So we bring home the broccoli and the cauliflower and the celery and we don't cut it.

[00:14:08] We don't take it with us to work.

[00:14:10] Right.

[00:14:10] And man, when you take that time to cut those vegetables and take them with you to work,

[00:14:14] they get eaten.

[00:14:15] Yes.

[00:14:15] It's a simple thing.

[00:14:16] Yes.

[00:14:16] And on that mindset you were talking about as far as one pill, even one supplement, when

[00:14:24] we're looking at using supplements to help the body to heal, we can't just give one supplement

[00:14:30] to help one process.

[00:14:32] We're looking at what are the different things that we're missing, and we might need four or

[00:14:38] five different things sometimes to really help the body to heal quicker than just doing

[00:14:44] diet alone.

[00:14:45] And that's reality.

[00:14:46] Yes.

[00:14:46] That's just reality.

[00:14:48] Yes.

[00:14:48] So the underlying myth that there's the diet isn't necessary, a good diet isn't necessary

[00:14:53] for well-being, and the myth that it's just going to be one thing.

[00:14:56] Right.

[00:14:57] You just haven't found it yet.

[00:14:58] Right.

[00:14:59] No.

[00:14:59] It's going to be multiple things.

[00:15:01] Right.

[00:15:01] And I never realized how insidious that myth was.

[00:15:05] I've always done, when there's something ailing me, I would take many approaches.

[00:15:11] And someone would say, well, how do you know what's working?

[00:15:14] And I'm like, I don't think that's really the point.

[00:15:16] Right.

[00:15:16] The point is that I believe multiple approaches will be the best.

[00:15:20] I don't necessarily have to solve a puzzle.

[00:15:23] I want to feel better.

[00:15:24] Right.

[00:15:24] But it's that reductionistic drug mentality.

[00:15:30] Yes.

[00:15:31] Because for any chronic disease, a drug is going to be needed to maintain for the rest

[00:15:38] of your life.

[00:15:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:39] When you're using supplements to heal the body, we will do lots of different things together

[00:15:45] knowing that we're going to be able to phase them out.

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:49] And you're never going to really phase the drug out.

[00:15:51] No.

[00:15:51] Unless you do the underlying things that are causing the disease.

[00:15:54] Exactly.

[00:15:55] All right.

[00:15:56] And so I just wanted to highlight also Thomas Edison's quote about...

[00:16:02] Yeah, you found that.

[00:16:03] That's fascinating.

[00:16:03] Yeah.

[00:16:04] So the doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patients in

[00:16:09] the care of the human frame, in diet, and in the cause, in prevention of disease.

[00:16:13] Well, look at you.

[00:16:14] You're the doctor of the future.

[00:16:15] Right.

[00:16:16] And the present.

[00:16:17] Right.

[00:16:17] And really the past.

[00:16:18] Right.

[00:16:18] Right.

[00:16:19] Well, considering...

[00:16:19] He was seeing trouble before anyone else was seeing trouble.

[00:16:22] Exactly.

[00:16:23] Right?

[00:16:23] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Yep.

[00:16:26] All right.

[00:16:26] Should we go into one of my very favorites, the low-fat diet myth?

[00:16:31] And can I just say, I am so glad as a young person I was listening to my body because

[00:16:37] I still remember being like 18 to 20 when the low-fat was really hitting the media.

[00:16:47] And there was one guru on TV all the time touting how all you have to do is exercise and

[00:16:54] eat a lot of potatoes and bread.

[00:16:55] And of course, I tried that because that's what the expert said to do.

[00:16:59] Right.

[00:17:00] And I felt like crap.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] And I started to notice that I feel better when I have a lot of fat.

[00:17:07] Not a lot of fat, but have some good fats.

[00:17:09] I mean, at that time, we weren't eating at home like in the 80s.

[00:17:12] We weren't eating a lot of processed foods anyway.

[00:17:16] We were just eating whole food.

[00:17:18] And I was glad that I did that because a lot of people that kind of fell into that ended

[00:17:22] up with really...

[00:17:23] They were overweight.

[00:17:25] Yeah.

[00:17:25] And other things.

[00:17:26] And, you know, I think that still is going on.

[00:17:32] Because I still hear people say to me, well, I don't eat any cholesterol.

[00:17:37] I don't eat anything with cholesterol because that's how I'm going to keep my cholesterol

[00:17:41] down.

[00:17:41] As if it's so simple.

[00:17:43] Right.

[00:17:43] You eat cholesterol and the body takes the cholesterol and just comes over and just shoves

[00:17:48] it into an artery.

[00:17:49] Right.

[00:17:49] But it's just not understanding the basic biochemical processes.

[00:17:52] Yeah.

[00:17:53] When we're looking at just cholesterol in our foods affecting your cholesterol in your

[00:17:59] blood, most of the research I've ever seen shows that the cholesterol in your food makes

[00:18:06] about a 7% difference.

[00:18:08] Right.

[00:18:08] So say somebody has a 200 cholesterol and they start eating a bunch of eggs.

[00:18:14] Okay.

[00:18:14] Well, that means their total cholesterol might bump up to 214.

[00:18:17] Okay.

[00:18:18] Yeah.

[00:18:18] You know, we're talking about a small change.

[00:18:20] And so you can't also, when you're trying to lower your cholesterol, you can't expect

[00:18:25] that, oh, I'm just going to get rid of eggs and meats and all of that's going to just

[00:18:29] fall away.

[00:18:30] Because the body has its own processes.

[00:18:32] So cholesterol is made in the liver.

[00:18:34] Correct.

[00:18:35] And when the liver detects, because it's smart, it's doing things, so many things, things

[00:18:40] we probably don't even know.

[00:18:41] It detects a low level of cholesterol because it's needed for cell walls.

[00:18:45] Right.

[00:18:45] It's needed for hormone metabolism.

[00:18:48] That's when I got real interested in cholesterol when I was working with bioidentical hormone

[00:18:52] replacement therapy in women and noticing that the low fat diets and the high carb diets

[00:18:58] were really jacking up women's, making their PMS worse and their postmenopausal symptoms

[00:19:05] worse.

[00:19:05] I'm like, what is going on there?

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:06] Because cholesterol is needed to make these things.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:10] It's, yeah.

[00:19:10] And so, I mean, you talked about the cell walls.

[00:19:14] So every cell in our body, the trillions of cells or whatever, however much that is, you

[00:19:20] know, the walls of every single cell needs cholesterol.

[00:19:23] Okay.

[00:19:23] We can't get rid of all of our cholesterol.

[00:19:25] No, but that's the style.

[00:19:26] It needs it.

[00:19:27] Yes.

[00:19:28] It's in the cell walls.

[00:19:29] Right.

[00:19:29] We're made up of cells.

[00:19:29] Right.

[00:19:29] So if the liver, that was, that's a very important job.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:33] Okay.

[00:19:33] So it detects low cholesterol and the liver's like, well, shoot, the cell walls, then this

[00:19:38] whole thing is going to go to hell.

[00:19:40] Right.

[00:19:40] Starts making more.

[00:19:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:42] Yeah.

[00:19:43] And we have other things like brain and nerve function.

[00:19:47] So important.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:48] I did get foggy brain too, I noticed, when I cut out too much fat or meat.

[00:19:52] I didn't, like I couldn't think straight.

[00:19:55] Right.

[00:19:55] And that's not good when you're in college.

[00:19:57] No, well, part of that is, and we'll talk about that too, but part of that is because

[00:20:01] when you're cutting out those fats, you have to add something else in.

[00:20:05] So you're eating a lot more carbohydrates.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:08] So your blood sugars are going up and down.

[00:20:10] It's those blood sugar drops is when you're feeling the fogginess.

[00:20:13] Yes.

[00:20:13] Great point.

[00:20:14] So it's not only the lack, but the substitution.

[00:20:18] Correct.

[00:20:18] Okay.

[00:20:18] That makes sense.

[00:20:19] And yeah.

[00:20:22] So, I mean, there's a lot of other things too from bile production.

[00:20:25] So we need bile producing your liver to help you to digest and absorb fats.

[00:20:32] And you need cholesterol then to be able to do that also.

[00:20:35] The body's brilliant.

[00:20:37] Right.

[00:20:37] Yes.

[00:20:37] Right.

[00:20:38] Yes.

[00:20:38] And vitamin D also.

[00:20:40] Which were so, many of us, very low in vitamin D.

[00:20:43] Right.

[00:20:43] A misnomer.

[00:20:44] Vitamin D is more like a hormone.

[00:20:46] Right.

[00:20:46] But it's so important.

[00:20:47] Well, but that's part of the reason, you know, because it does fit in with those other hormones

[00:20:52] that are cholesterol based.

[00:20:54] Yes.

[00:20:54] They all are.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:55] Sublight exposure converts cholesterol in the skin to vitamin D.

[00:21:00] Right.

[00:21:00] Yes.

[00:21:01] We get it through our skin, not through a pill.

[00:21:03] Right.

[00:21:04] But I mean, we may have to do that.

[00:21:05] Well, yeah.

[00:21:06] But that's the thing is now in our culture, we need to supplement vitamin D.

[00:21:13] We know how to be able to get the vitamin D from the sun, especially up in our northern

[00:21:19] climate.

[00:21:20] True.

[00:21:21] You know, it's hard to do.

[00:21:23] But also, we have a trade-off.

[00:21:27] It's get good sun exposure so that you can have your vitamin D or, you know, which then

[00:21:33] you can develop skin cancer too.

[00:21:35] Yeah.

[00:21:35] You know, so it's, you know, you have to pick and choose.

[00:21:38] And vitamin D is luckily a very cheap supplement.

[00:21:41] This is true.

[00:21:42] That you can use.

[00:21:43] And I'm heartened by the fact that, like, say, 30 years ago, people didn't know anything

[00:21:47] about it, weren't getting their levels checked.

[00:21:50] Right.

[00:21:50] Now, still, I wish it was everybody gets their vitamin D level checked.

[00:21:55] When it comes up, when I have time, I say, well, what's your vitamin D level?

[00:21:57] I don't know.

[00:21:58] Just get it checked.

[00:21:59] It's pretty cheap to have it checked.

[00:22:00] And we need to know kind of where we are.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:03] Some of the earliest research that I saw about vitamin D and the immune system, of course,

[00:22:08] we learned it became a lot more known in the public during COVID.

[00:22:13] The impressive 10 times.

[00:22:14] Exactly.

[00:22:15] About how important vitamin D is for the immune system to fight viruses.

[00:22:19] But I had been really looking at that for at least a decade prior.

[00:22:24] Of course you were.

[00:22:24] Because that's, yeah.

[00:22:25] Right.

[00:22:25] Your arena.

[00:22:26] Yeah.

[00:22:26] But it was interesting because one of the first sort of accidental understandings that

[00:22:34] vitamin D could be helpful for your immune system was actually in a psych ward.

[00:22:41] Oh.

[00:22:41] That the doctor that was in charge of one wing of the psych ward really believed in vitamin

[00:22:46] D.

[00:22:47] And I'm not sure why it was maybe for probably at that time was more just because they want,

[00:22:53] he wanted to make sure that they had enough vitamin D for bone function or whatever else.

[00:23:00] But the flu came through the psych, you know, the whole psych hospital.

[00:23:04] And they had, that was the only ward where there was nobody dying.

[00:23:09] Interesting.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:10] Yeah.

[00:23:10] So that sort of brought it to a little bit higher level.

[00:23:14] And that was well before the unprecedented.

[00:23:15] Oh yeah.

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:16] At least, probably at least a decade and a half.

[00:23:19] I think, yeah.

[00:23:19] I was thinking closer to 20 years, but yeah, that makes sense.

[00:23:23] And then also I love this because I always think about how, you know, the men, there's

[00:23:31] so many men that have low testosterone levels, which is a hormone, which needs cholesterol

[00:23:41] to be manufactured in the body.

[00:23:44] And we've spent how many years now with the torvistatin and the statins lowering cholesterol.

[00:23:49] Right.

[00:23:49] Have we then inadvertently lowered testosterone levels, which is really important for overall

[00:23:56] well-being?

[00:23:57] Right.

[00:23:57] And that's still, the research there is still hit and miss.

[00:24:00] There's some studies that show that it could be affecting and others that aren't.

[00:24:04] So it's still early, but it's still something that we need to be looking at.

[00:24:07] I would think, to think about for sure.

[00:24:09] And also I think people should have their hormone levels checked too.

[00:24:12] It's a little more expensive than say a vitamin D level.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:16] That's not a bad idea.

[00:24:17] But also when we look at not having enough vitamin D, or I'm sorry, not having enough

[00:24:23] cholesterol.

[00:24:24] Okay.

[00:24:25] So there are a lot of studies showing that you lower your cholesterol too low and you're

[00:24:32] going, you know, there's, there was studies about increase in suicide ideation, you know,

[00:24:40] under 150 for total cholesterol.

[00:24:42] Wow.

[00:24:43] And, you know, of course, cardiologists would love to be able to get all of their patients

[00:24:48] under 150 total cholesterol.

[00:24:50] That's so extreme.

[00:24:51] That always sounded extreme to me.

[00:24:52] Is that the guidelines and the recommendations?

[00:24:54] No, it's, but it's, it's just, they want to get it as low as possible.

[00:24:57] They don't, they don't care about any other ramifications.

[00:25:00] They're trying to save the heart.

[00:25:02] Because again, the way the medical system is set up, you need all these doctors for all

[00:25:07] the body parts.

[00:25:08] Right.

[00:25:09] Right.

[00:25:09] So the heart doctor doesn't have to worry about anything but the heart.

[00:25:12] As if it's hanging out by itself in there, not talking to anything else.

[00:25:16] It's, it's again, a systems problem.

[00:25:19] Right.

[00:25:20] Right.

[00:25:21] That is very, um.

[00:25:23] And of course, everybody, all, all different specialties think that their parts the most,

[00:25:27] you know, important.

[00:25:28] Right.

[00:25:28] You know, because yeah, if you die of a heart attack, well, it doesn't matter that your

[00:25:32] cholesterol is too low and that you're thinking about suicide.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:36] If you have a heart attack and die.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:37] But that's with every part of our body too.

[00:25:40] Exactly.

[00:25:41] You know, and so to have, you know, good long-term health, you need that balance.

[00:25:44] Absolutely.

[00:25:45] And you have to know that all the parts are talking, you have to kind of be paying attention

[00:25:48] to all of it.

[00:25:50] Right.

[00:25:50] I think it's hard for people if you have the myths and also the competing specialists in

[00:25:58] each of the area kind of feeds into the fact that nothing is connected in there.

[00:26:03] And one thing doesn't affect the other thing.

[00:26:04] Right.

[00:26:04] And my own body's chemistry doesn't matter.

[00:26:07] And my own diet doesn't matter.

[00:26:09] Yeah.

[00:26:09] Kind of perpetuates all of it.

[00:26:11] Right.

[00:26:11] Because there will be a drug that will save you anyhow.

[00:26:14] Exactly.

[00:26:16] Live long enough.

[00:26:17] Right.

[00:26:17] Until it gets invented.

[00:26:19] You were going to get into a little bit about the LDL and the HDL.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:25] So, I mean.

[00:26:26] Because people get those measured too.

[00:26:27] It's not just cholesterol.

[00:26:28] So, kind of people understand HDL, LDL, triglycerides.

[00:26:32] Right.

[00:26:33] So, the HDL is considered the good cholesterol.

[00:26:36] And, to be honest, it's mostly genetic.

[00:26:42] With that one.

[00:26:43] With that one.

[00:26:45] Yes, research shows that maybe it can get bumped up a little bit with exercise and there's

[00:26:51] different things.

[00:26:52] But, on a whole, if you have a genetically really low good cholesterol, you're not going

[00:26:58] to raise it that much.

[00:27:00] Okay.

[00:27:01] The LDL is what they consider the bad cholesterol.

[00:27:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:05] And, so, that's the one that's usually a lot higher than the HDL.

[00:27:11] Which would be bad.

[00:27:13] Right.

[00:27:13] If you're looking at just a lab result.

[00:27:16] Right.

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:17] I mean, there's a ratio between the two.

[00:27:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:18] And there's that.

[00:27:19] Yep.

[00:27:20] But, also, with that LDL cholesterol, there's different types of LDL.

[00:27:25] So, you can have larger, fluffier LDL molecules that are not as harmful.

[00:27:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:35] And, you know, some doctors even consider, you know, health, you know, benefiting.

[00:27:39] So, it's the type of those LDL cholesterol and, you know, some of those saturated fats that

[00:27:48] we talk about also that are so bad for lowering your cholesterol.

[00:27:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:54] You know, the animal fats and even coconut oil and avocado oil and some of these different

[00:28:00] saturated fats that are considered bad by conventional wisdom.

[00:28:04] But, they're not.

[00:28:05] They're not.

[00:28:05] And, they help to raise the, you know, help to change that LDL cholesterol into the more

[00:28:12] harmless type.

[00:28:13] And, again, the cholesterol, the LDLs, the bad ones, they kind of stick to the arteries.

[00:28:21] That's the problem, right?

[00:28:22] Right.

[00:28:22] They stick to the arteries, making it hard for the blood to go through.

[00:28:24] But, like, if you have a blockage or something in your arteries, it's not only made up of

[00:28:31] cholesterol.

[00:28:31] We know that now, right?

[00:28:33] Right.

[00:28:33] There's other things that are hanging out in there.

[00:28:35] Yeah.

[00:28:35] And, we're just not quite sure, unless, tell me if I'm wrong, it's not that the LDL is sticking

[00:28:41] there and then calling in the other stuff that's clogging it up.

[00:28:43] We really don't know how that's happening.

[00:28:45] Yeah.

[00:28:46] I mean, they're starting to understand it a lot better.

[00:28:48] I mean, you know, it starts with inflammation and damage to the artery, which then the LDLs

[00:28:55] gets pulled in to try to patch it up.

[00:28:58] Of course.

[00:28:59] That's why there's such a focus now, since the unprecedented times, on inflammation.

[00:29:03] Right.

[00:29:03] And, everyone's talking about inflammation as being part and parcel to heart disease, diabetes,

[00:29:08] Alzheimer's.

[00:29:09] It's this whole state of inflammation.

[00:29:11] Yeah.

[00:29:11] And, then the other piece is, yeah, you'll have calcification of that, too.

[00:29:17] Right.

[00:29:17] So, now, a lot more doctors are doing calcium scores to see how much calcification are in

[00:29:23] those arteries.

[00:29:24] Speaking of that, when I was a little baby pharmacist, everyone was put on calcium.

[00:29:28] Calcium carbonate prevents osteoporosis.

[00:29:32] Right.

[00:29:32] I don't hear that or see that anymore.

[00:29:34] Yeah.

[00:29:34] Calcium carbonate, very hard to digest.

[00:29:36] So, what was the body doing with all that calcium that we gave all these women?

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] All these years, so they wouldn't get osteoporosis.

[00:29:43] Yes.

[00:29:43] So, that, again, it's the problem of balance.

[00:29:47] Ah.

[00:29:48] Because we do need the calcium.

[00:29:49] And calcium carbonate is, you know, yes, it's a cheaper form.

[00:29:55] It's not as well absorbed.

[00:29:57] That doesn't matter that much.

[00:29:59] Okay.

[00:29:59] I mean, most of the calcium supplements that I use will still have the calcium carbonate in it,

[00:30:05] because it's just less expensive and you have to take less pills.

[00:30:08] But it's the fact that you need all of these other nutrients to help the calcium to work properly.

[00:30:15] Aha.

[00:30:16] There we go again.

[00:30:17] Yes.

[00:30:17] The length of just one.

[00:30:18] Right.

[00:30:18] Right.

[00:30:19] So, we had two big studies talking about calcium and heart disease.

[00:30:25] You know, calcium supplements.

[00:30:26] And the first one, it was done.

[00:30:29] And there was a little footnote at the bottom of the study that was never talked about that said the patients that were taking vitamin D with the calcium didn't have the same cardiovascular damage.

[00:30:41] Well, there you go.

[00:30:42] That should not have been a footnote, my friend.

[00:30:43] No, no.

[00:30:44] But, yeah, you need the magnesium to help with that.

[00:30:49] You need vitamin D to help absorb the calcium.

[00:30:52] Okay.

[00:30:53] You need vitamin K to help corral it to the right places.

[00:30:57] There are studies showing that, you know, high amounts of vitamin K2 actually can pull calcium out of the arteries and actually helps improve calcium in the bones.

[00:31:08] That's amazing.

[00:31:09] Yeah.

[00:31:09] So, if you don't have enough of that vitamin K2 in your body, in your diet.

[00:31:14] Dark leafies.

[00:31:16] Right.

[00:31:16] We're talking to you.

[00:31:17] Yes.

[00:31:17] So, then it makes it harder for the calcium to go to the right place.

[00:31:22] Amazing.

[00:31:22] We want it in the right place.

[00:31:23] Right.

[00:31:23] The bones are not hanging around in the arteries.

[00:31:25] And there are a lot of other little micronutrients, too.

[00:31:27] Minerals, right?

[00:31:28] Like other little minerals that you would need.

[00:31:30] It's just not the one thing.

[00:31:31] Right.

[00:31:31] See, that was the myth we didn't have down, but I'm glad it came up.

[00:31:34] Right.

[00:31:34] Right.

[00:31:34] But I think because we haven't, it's not a push anymore.

[00:31:38] Right.

[00:31:38] But I think it's important that we talk about, that we did this, because then people have a little bit of a perspective.

[00:31:44] Like, okay, so we pushed that on people.

[00:31:48] It wasn't the whole picture.

[00:31:49] It wasn't exactly what it was touted to be.

[00:31:51] Right.

[00:31:51] So, there are things going on now that 15 years from now we are going to say the same thing about.

[00:31:56] So, be wary.

[00:31:57] Like, the myths aren't just from yesteryear.

[00:32:00] No.

[00:32:00] The myths are going on still today.

[00:32:02] But that's the thing with when we're talking about cholesterol.

[00:32:06] We're trying to keep jumping between these different things.

[00:32:09] We're talking about cholesterol.

[00:32:10] Yeah.

[00:32:10] And there's still myths going on with that.

[00:32:12] Right.

[00:32:13] Right.

[00:32:13] And so, with that, when we're talking about heart disease, it's not all about cholesterol.

[00:32:21] What?

[00:32:21] You know, and so, you know, you have a portion of it that, yeah, if you have those, you know, coronary arteries, they get full of cholesterol.

[00:32:33] They're going to block blood flow to the heart.

[00:32:35] Okay.

[00:32:36] That could be bad.

[00:32:38] But it's not the whole picture.

[00:32:40] Well, give us more.

[00:32:41] What is more of the picture?

[00:32:43] The other part of it is inflammation in the arteries and then also spasms of those arteries.

[00:32:49] Why are they spasming?

[00:32:50] Well, we need to figure that out better.

[00:32:52] And I really believe that that's going to be a lot more important in the future to understand that.

[00:32:58] Because just logically, when you hear about a family member that, you know, they had 80% blockage of the widowmaker or something, let's still 80%.

[00:33:11] Why did they have the heart attack if it was 80%?

[00:33:15] There had to have been, you know, total blood.

[00:33:17] So it's not just a matter of that.

[00:33:19] That one last cholesterol molecule fell in there and then they had the heart attack.

[00:33:25] People think that.

[00:33:26] Right.

[00:33:27] So you have inflammation in that artery that could then close it off more.

[00:33:31] But also spasms of the muscles in the artery that could block it off temporarily and cause...

[00:33:37] And cause the infarction.

[00:33:38] Yes.

[00:33:39] The lack of oxygen.

[00:33:39] The lack of blood.

[00:33:40] The lack of oxygen.

[00:33:41] Right.

[00:33:41] The death of the cardiac muscle.

[00:33:43] Yeah.

[00:33:45] And so, you know, all of the statins do, you know, there's studies that they do help some with the inflammation.

[00:33:52] They're anti-inflammatory.

[00:33:53] Right.

[00:33:54] Which is a good thing.

[00:33:55] Right.

[00:33:55] But that's also why they totally ignore the rest of the whole piece of it.

[00:34:00] Because we already have the fix.

[00:34:01] Right.

[00:34:01] We have the fix.

[00:34:02] It's not going to change the treatment.

[00:34:03] Don't look anymore.

[00:34:04] Right.

[00:34:05] Right.

[00:34:05] Yeah.

[00:34:06] Yeah.

[00:34:06] I mean...

[00:34:07] But they probably are looking.

[00:34:08] A little bit.

[00:34:09] I mean, they're more and more maybe testing C-reactive protein.

[00:34:13] They should be.

[00:34:14] I've heard about that.

[00:34:15] You know, it's still not a lot.

[00:34:18] You know, maybe a sed rate too, which, you know, is a lot more indirect with inflammation.

[00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:23] And homocysteine is something else that really needs to be tested.

[00:34:26] You've talked about that for as long as I've known you.

[00:34:28] Right.

[00:34:29] And so there's a lot of other, you know, inflammatory markers that should be looked at.

[00:34:34] Yes, because then one would know.

[00:34:37] You know, we know our height.

[00:34:38] We know our weight.

[00:34:39] We may know our BMI.

[00:34:40] We know our cholesterol.

[00:34:42] We should know our inflammatory state.

[00:34:45] Right.

[00:34:45] And there are ways to test that, that your doctor can run.

[00:34:49] And it would help as part of the whole picture.

[00:34:52] But...

[00:34:52] But...

[00:34:53] There aren't drugs to treat it.

[00:34:54] Then why run it?

[00:34:55] Because all the anti-inflammatory drugs increase heart disease.

[00:34:59] You mean like ibuprofen and things like that?

[00:35:03] Yeah, they affect it.

[00:35:04] Yeah.

[00:35:04] Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:35:05] You're right.

[00:35:06] And I don't even think about those drugs.

[00:35:08] I think of those drugs as like, okay, those are inflammation that causes pain.

[00:35:13] So that's where it's going to get a little confusing.

[00:35:15] But also like the COX-2 inhibitors that were really causing heart disease.

[00:35:19] Remember those?

[00:35:19] Took them right off the market.

[00:35:21] Well, they've come back some.

[00:35:23] Oh, they have.

[00:35:23] You're right.

[00:35:24] They were great for pain though.

[00:35:25] Right.

[00:35:26] Because they really were anti-inflammatory.

[00:35:27] Right.

[00:35:28] Right.

[00:35:28] So again, it's as we struggle with our one fix that's going to cause one problem, we're

[00:35:35] messing things up on the other end.

[00:35:37] Right.

[00:35:37] So like you and I both believe, even though I work amongst the drugs, that it really, they

[00:35:43] are not the answer.

[00:35:45] Right.

[00:35:46] In their entirety.

[00:35:47] No.

[00:35:47] They're amazing.

[00:35:48] But they're not always the answer in their entirety.

[00:35:51] Are you saying that to your overlords?

[00:35:52] Make sure they hear?

[00:35:53] Yes.

[00:35:54] So many.

[00:35:55] I bow to many gods.

[00:35:58] But also, just the fact, yeah, I think we need to get back on track of just talking about

[00:36:03] this low-fat diet part.

[00:36:04] Okay.

[00:36:04] Let's go back to low-fat diet.

[00:36:06] So for one, with the heart disease, obviously a diet that has had lots of research that shows

[00:36:13] it reduces heart disease but has some high amounts of saturated fats is the Mediterranean

[00:36:20] diet.

[00:36:21] Lots of olive oil.

[00:36:22] Yeah.

[00:36:22] Lots of books, lots of data.

[00:36:24] Yeah.

[00:36:25] Lots of studies.

[00:36:26] So that just shows in other ways.

[00:36:28] Yeah.

[00:36:29] And the Mediterranean diet also has a lot of vegetables.

[00:36:33] Right.

[00:36:34] Any fruit in that one?

[00:36:35] A lot of vegetables.

[00:36:36] Leaky vegetables, I remember, is part of it.

[00:36:38] Yeah.

[00:36:39] I mean, it's a lot more balanced.

[00:36:41] And I would say it's not perfect because it definitely includes a lot more grains than

[00:36:45] I would like for some patients.

[00:36:47] For some people.

[00:36:47] Yeah.

[00:36:48] But again, there we go.

[00:36:49] Like, not every diet is going to fit every person.

[00:36:53] Exactly.

[00:36:54] Exactly.

[00:36:54] I mean, I always think about, like, say someone who lives in Alaska who has that kind of the

[00:36:59] DNA of their people have been there a long time.

[00:37:02] If you put them on a vegan diet, I can't imagine that they wouldn't get sick.

[00:37:05] I mean, their whole bodies have been, their people have been kind of adjusted to a higher

[00:37:11] fat diet.

[00:37:12] Right.

[00:37:13] Because that's all that is there.

[00:37:14] Yeah.

[00:37:15] I think that plays a part of it, too.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:18] We have lots of different factors that go along with it.

[00:37:21] It should be individualized.

[00:37:23] Right.

[00:37:23] Sure.

[00:37:23] But that doesn't mean complicated.

[00:37:25] No.

[00:37:25] People get very confused.

[00:37:27] If it's individualized and personalized, for me, it has to be very complex and exotic

[00:37:32] and inaccessible.

[00:37:33] Right.

[00:37:33] Right.

[00:37:33] No.

[00:37:34] No.

[00:37:35] That's a myth.

[00:37:35] Yeah.

[00:37:36] But I guess, you know, going back to this whole, where this whole myth started, you know,

[00:37:43] so you had a researcher called Ancel Keys.

[00:37:45] Okay.

[00:37:46] And released a study in 1970.

[00:37:49] It was the, it was the seven countries study.

[00:37:53] Okay.

[00:37:53] It was looking at these seven different countries that had low fat diets and reduce heart disease

[00:37:59] risk.

[00:37:59] Okay.

[00:38:00] First countries or no, no.

[00:38:02] I remember.

[00:38:02] No, but big, like a lot of people.

[00:38:05] Right.

[00:38:05] Right.

[00:38:06] Yeah.

[00:38:06] But the problem was, is they took data on 22 different countries.

[00:38:12] Okay.

[00:38:12] And so he just whittled it down to the seven countries that fit his narrative.

[00:38:18] Narrative.

[00:38:19] Yeah.

[00:38:19] Yeah.

[00:38:19] I hate when they do that.

[00:38:20] It's not very sciencey.

[00:38:21] So, but that's what started this whole thing starting in 1970.

[00:38:25] And then, you know, towards the late seventies, early eighties is when we really started getting

[00:38:30] that low fat kick.

[00:38:32] Marketing and all the foods and the people on TV.

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:36] Okay.

[00:38:37] Yeah.

[00:38:37] Yeah.

[00:38:37] And it's, you know, and you can see a clear delineation where we started getting lots

[00:38:44] more I overweight and obesity too at the same time.

[00:38:48] Right.

[00:38:48] And we're not saying necessarily that that's a straight, that's just like a cause and effect,

[00:38:52] but it certainly had to be contributing.

[00:38:54] Definitely.

[00:38:55] Considering how many carbs people were taking on.

[00:38:58] I don't know if we mentioned this yet, but too many carbohydrates can also bump up your

[00:39:03] triglycerides.

[00:39:03] Right.

[00:39:04] Right.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:04] The triglycerides are very dependent on carbohydrates.

[00:39:08] And that's one of the main reasons, the main things I look at for patients to get those

[00:39:13] triglycerides down is reducing the carbs.

[00:39:16] Same people do not understand that.

[00:39:17] I know.

[00:39:18] Because they think I take fat in, my fat things go up, like triglyceride goes up.

[00:39:22] No.

[00:39:24] Carbohydrates in the body.

[00:39:25] Cause your body to manufacture more triglycerides.

[00:39:29] And why does the body do that?

[00:39:30] I wonder.

[00:39:31] It's, you know.

[00:39:32] But it's trying to compensate for something, obviously.

[00:39:35] It's a storage.

[00:39:35] Because the body always wants homeostasis.

[00:39:37] Right.

[00:39:37] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Right.

[00:39:38] So your body, you know.

[00:39:40] Has to do something with all those carbs.

[00:39:42] Too many carbs are not good for most people.

[00:39:44] And we have to understand we're, our bodies are the same bodies of people hundreds of years

[00:39:50] ago when food wasn't so abundant.

[00:39:54] So you have those extra carbs, you want to pack them up and save them for when you have

[00:39:58] the next famine.

[00:39:59] That's true.

[00:39:59] That is true.

[00:40:01] Yeah.

[00:40:02] And that's one way to pack them up.

[00:40:04] Right.

[00:40:04] Is turn them into triglycerides.

[00:40:06] In fact, I've seen studies, I was, you know, about eating disorders and different things

[00:40:13] where you would see higher triglycerides with people that were anorexic.

[00:40:18] They were eating very low calorie diets, but they're making more, you know, triglycerides,

[00:40:25] trying to save up any extra calories and ways to keep their bodies alive.

[00:40:31] The intelligence.

[00:40:32] Yeah.

[00:40:32] The body.

[00:40:33] Oh, that's amazing.

[00:40:34] I did not know about that.

[00:40:37] What else do we want to say about the data about the fat and cholesterol?

[00:40:43] Yeah.

[00:40:43] Well, I think one thing that people don't realize too is that if, you know, our liver

[00:40:50] makes most of our cholesterol.

[00:40:52] So that's why we use those statin drugs.

[00:40:55] They block cholesterol production in the liver.

[00:40:58] Right.

[00:40:58] It's not that those drugs stop your body from absorbing fats and cholesterol out of your

[00:41:04] food.

[00:41:04] We tried that.

[00:41:05] Didn't work.

[00:41:06] No.

[00:41:06] I've got lots of diarrhea.

[00:41:09] Those are dark times.

[00:41:10] Right.

[00:41:11] Right.

[00:41:11] But yeah, so there's, you know, these are different mechanisms and there are studies

[00:41:17] looking at really reducing your cholesterol and your foods and your saturated fats and your

[00:41:23] body will compensate and just make more cholesterol.

[00:41:26] And that's why you need the statins.

[00:41:28] Right.

[00:41:30] It's not supposed to work that way.

[00:41:32] No.

[00:41:32] Now that we break it down like this, it's not supposed to be this way.

[00:41:36] Yeah.

[00:41:36] But, you know, looking at different other lifestyle factors.

[00:41:40] Like what?

[00:41:41] So things like stress, lowering your stress can affect your cholesterol.

[00:41:48] How does that work?

[00:41:50] So cortisol can stimulate cholesterol production.

[00:41:54] So if you're chronically stressed and you're producing more cortisol.

[00:41:57] So the body will do that.

[00:41:58] So the liver will make more cholesterol in response to stress.

[00:42:01] Right.

[00:42:02] Because cortisol is made from cholesterol.

[00:42:08] So your body needs to, if you're under a lot of stress, your body wants to make sure

[00:42:11] that you have enough cortisol.

[00:42:13] So you're going to make more cholesterol to make sure you have enough cortisol.

[00:42:19] I'd love to just have the moments where even though I know this stuff, but I love remembering

[00:42:25] how brilliant the body is.

[00:42:27] Right.

[00:42:28] Right.

[00:42:28] Yeah.

[00:42:29] And so also other things with stress would be that you're more stressed.

[00:42:35] You're going to eat more bad foods.

[00:42:37] You're not going to exercise.

[00:42:39] Exactly.

[00:42:39] And what we need to understand, I think we can each take a moment when we're stressed,

[00:42:44] we're eating a lot of times it is mindless.

[00:42:46] Right.

[00:42:47] And we're trying to use it to calm ourselves down.

[00:42:49] I do my, I do that myself.

[00:42:50] So I know.

[00:42:53] And we don't even know we're doing it.

[00:42:56] Right.

[00:42:56] Right.

[00:42:57] And if you're stressed, you want to do more to fix whatever it is that's causing you stress,

[00:43:01] you may abandon the good rituals that you have.

[00:43:05] Right.

[00:43:06] Like going for a walk.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:08] Possibly take time to go for a walk when things are hitting the fan.

[00:43:11] Right.

[00:43:12] Right.

[00:43:12] And you have so much to do.

[00:43:14] We're all so busy and so overwhelmed.

[00:43:16] Right.

[00:43:16] Right.

[00:43:17] But yeah, just like pretty much just like diet, we have different studies showing how certain

[00:43:24] diet factors will help pretty much every disease known to man.

[00:43:29] We have studies that show exercise does that too.

[00:43:32] Absolutely.

[00:43:33] And it's the same thing with cholesterol too.

[00:43:35] Um, and so, yeah, like we said, the stress will then make you not exercise as much.

[00:43:40] You know, sleep's another factor that falls into all of the same things that you don't

[00:43:45] get enough.

[00:43:46] Yes, sleep is a lifestyle related thing.

[00:43:47] Right.

[00:43:47] If your lifestyle is such that you're not sleeping, this is a problem for, for many,

[00:43:52] many things.

[00:43:53] Right.

[00:43:53] Which often doesn't.

[00:43:54] Well, that comes up with eat well, exercise and get some sleep.

[00:43:59] And the patient goes, okay, well, can I have some Ambien or whatever, right?

[00:44:03] To help me sleep.

[00:44:04] And so, yeah.

[00:44:05] So looking at this holistically, there is no one fix.

[00:44:10] I mean, I've had patients that I've, that needed to go on say a ketogenic diet, very,

[00:44:17] very low carb diet with lots of higher fads and having multiple eggs a day.

[00:44:22] And I'm in fact, I've had several patients where their total cholesterol dropped 50 points

[00:44:28] in a month.

[00:44:30] When they're eating a high fat diet.

[00:44:32] Yeah.

[00:44:32] You know, not everybody's the same and we'll have some people that that might raise their

[00:44:36] cholesterol some, but that's the point that everybody's different.

[00:44:39] And you're not just looking at one marker anyway.

[00:44:42] No, no.

[00:44:43] Right.

[00:44:43] And, you know, when we look at the carbs for a lot of people, carbs can be that fuel to

[00:44:50] get the liver to make more cholesterol too.

[00:44:53] So you cut out the fats and eat more carbs and then your liver says, hey, we can make more

[00:44:58] cholesterol from this.

[00:45:00] So there's, you know, everybody's a little bit different and there are a lot of different

[00:45:04] pieces that are associated with this.

[00:45:08] So now I think we should move on to our next topic.

[00:45:11] Yeah.

[00:45:12] Debunking the myth that nuts and seeds cause diverticulitis.

[00:45:17] Right.

[00:45:17] And as I was thinking about that, I do remember several patients stating very confidently that

[00:45:25] they have to avoid any nuts or seeds because they were describing it very graphically.

[00:45:31] They would sit in the little folds that are the result of diverticulitis and never be digested

[00:45:37] and never leave the body.

[00:45:38] And that would cause so many more problems down the road.

[00:45:41] Right.

[00:45:41] Right.

[00:45:41] So, so we have two different terms that we need to define.

[00:45:47] First is diverticulosis.

[00:45:49] Oh.

[00:45:50] Which is.

[00:45:51] People don't know that word.

[00:45:52] Right.

[00:45:52] Right.

[00:45:53] But that's the important thing is diverticulosis is those little outpouchings in the colon that

[00:46:00] happen that allow for food to get stuck in there or inflammation or bad bacteria.

[00:46:06] Okay.

[00:46:07] And cause an infection.

[00:46:08] And so that infection is diverticulitis.

[00:46:12] Ah, there we go.

[00:46:14] There.

[00:46:14] So.

[00:46:15] Okay.

[00:46:15] So it's, that's why you'll, you know, and most people just say diverticulitis.

[00:46:20] Right.

[00:46:20] But unless they're having infection, they have diverticulitis.

[00:46:24] They don't have that.

[00:46:25] Right.

[00:46:25] Which is caused by, do we know what, and which is, what is it then?

[00:46:29] What is diverticulosis?

[00:46:30] How would you define it?

[00:46:31] They're just little pouches that develop out, you know, pushing out.

[00:46:36] It's.

[00:46:37] We don't know.

[00:46:38] I mean.

[00:46:38] Like so many things.

[00:46:39] Well, number one, it just comes down to constipation.

[00:46:43] The bowel's not moving properly.

[00:46:45] So.

[00:46:46] I see.

[00:46:46] Yeah.

[00:46:47] So if you have harder stools and you don't have enough fiber, not enough water, you're

[00:46:51] not pushing things through enough.

[00:46:53] That makes so much sense.

[00:46:54] That is so simple.

[00:46:55] Right.

[00:46:55] And most people's diets are pretty crappy.

[00:46:57] Right.

[00:46:58] Right.

[00:46:58] Then that would be something that would develop over time.

[00:47:02] It can.

[00:47:02] Yes, definitely.

[00:47:04] And again, the advice would be, it doesn't matter what you do, dietarily speaking, for

[00:47:09] this.

[00:47:09] Except for avoid nuts and seeds.

[00:47:11] Except for that.

[00:47:13] Yeah.

[00:47:13] Including.

[00:47:15] You're right.

[00:47:15] You have some people.

[00:47:16] I can't even have strawberries because the little seeds in the strawberries will get.

[00:47:19] I thought that too.

[00:47:20] Yeah.

[00:47:21] And I think that there has to be something to that as part of a trigger for some people

[00:47:29] for these infections.

[00:47:30] Sure.

[00:47:31] That makes perfect sense.

[00:47:32] Right.

[00:47:32] But it's not the cause of the problem.

[00:47:34] Right.

[00:47:34] And it's not the answer for long-term health.

[00:47:39] That's such a great point because people then think, as long as I avoid nuts and seeds,

[00:47:44] I will be cured, I guess is what they think.

[00:47:48] It was just that simple.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:50] And that is not the case.

[00:47:52] No.

[00:47:52] No.

[00:47:52] Because the nuts and seeds actually can be part of the fiber that helps keep the bowels

[00:47:57] moving well so that you don't get things stuck in these pouches and cause infection.

[00:48:02] To begin with.

[00:48:02] Yes.

[00:48:03] Yes.

[00:48:03] In fact, there's even a study, a big study looking at 47,000 men over 18 years.

[00:48:12] And this was in 2008 in the Journal of the American Medical Association, GMO.

[00:48:16] That's a big one.

[00:48:17] It is.

[00:48:18] It is.

[00:48:18] And it showed actually the reverse, that eating nuts and seeds regularly could have a 20% reduction

[00:48:28] in diverticulitis flare-ups.

[00:48:30] Oh, wow.

[00:48:32] Once again.

[00:48:33] Yeah.

[00:48:33] We got it a little bit backwards.

[00:48:36] Well, and that's the thing, I mean, and it's funny how, as an atiopathic doctor, I learned

[00:48:43] from, you know, I graduated medical school in 2001 and learned in medical school that,

[00:48:49] yeah, those nuts and seeds may get stuck and cause an infection, you know, for the diverticulitis,

[00:48:58] but they can be helpful long-term as part of the fiber to help keep moving things through

[00:49:03] so that you don't have those diverticulitis flare-ups.

[00:49:07] So they can be important.

[00:49:09] Maybe short-term while you're having a flare-up, you don't want to have them.

[00:49:12] Makes perfect sense.

[00:49:13] Yeah.

[00:49:14] But long-term, they can be helpful as part of that fiber to move things through.

[00:49:18] Right.

[00:49:18] That's so, so logical.

[00:49:21] Right.

[00:49:22] And unfortunately, you know, doctors, that's the only thing they say about it is avoid nuts

[00:49:27] and seeds and then call me when you have pain and we'll get on an antibiotic.

[00:49:32] Right.

[00:49:33] Right.

[00:49:34] So what's the link then between like diverticulitis, irritable bowel, Crohn's disease?

[00:49:40] Are they, is there overlap there?

[00:49:42] Is there...

[00:49:43] I would say not really.

[00:49:44] Not really.

[00:49:45] I mean, it's a totally different condition.

[00:49:47] Different thing.

[00:49:47] I mean, all of them, all of them are best treated through your diet and nutrition.

[00:49:53] That is not what I've heard, sir.

[00:49:54] I know.

[00:49:55] I can't tell you.

[00:49:57] That is not what I see.

[00:49:58] Right.

[00:49:58] But I can tell you how often I see patients that they're gastroenterologists, you know,

[00:50:06] maybe they want to do surgery or whatever.

[00:50:08] And it's the matter of getting strict on their diet and making some dietary changes and they

[00:50:15] get better.

[00:50:16] What about somebody?

[00:50:17] I just heard a story just this morning about someone who had a diverticulitis, had diverticulitis

[00:50:22] meanings, means the infection.

[00:50:23] And they had to remove part of his bowel, colostomy bag, and then ultimately, I don't know, can

[00:50:29] you come back from that?

[00:50:31] Or once they've removed a part of it, then it's kind of like, oh, well, you're on steroids

[00:50:36] for the rest of your life and you live with this colostomy bag.

[00:50:38] That means it depends on the person.

[00:50:41] Often they can reconnect eventually after things heal.

[00:50:44] I think that's what they were saying.

[00:50:45] So, which is great.

[00:50:46] Right.

[00:50:46] That the body will heal.

[00:50:48] But again, you're going to have to do something.

[00:50:51] Right.

[00:50:51] But that person allowed for that infection to stay in there a long time.

[00:50:57] And so it damaged that portion of the colon so much that they had to have that removed.

[00:51:02] Right.

[00:51:02] Because that infection, that part, or it could be dead.

[00:51:05] Right.

[00:51:06] Right.

[00:51:06] Yeah.

[00:51:06] It's just died from the infection.

[00:51:08] Yeah.

[00:51:08] Lack of blood flow, inflammation.

[00:51:10] Right.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:11] Then when I heard that, I'm like, oh my goodness, it is just so important to keep your bowel

[00:51:16] healthy and keep things moving.

[00:51:18] Yeah.

[00:51:19] And so, I mean, things like, I think we, I don't know if we talked about probiotics, but

[00:51:24] they're good bacteria.

[00:51:25] Right.

[00:51:26] So they can help crowd out the bad bacteria that could be part of the infection.

[00:51:30] That's a great point.

[00:51:31] And also that's another place where fiber comes in.

[00:51:34] Fiber is prebiotic.

[00:51:35] So when you hear about-

[00:51:36] Yes, it feeds the good guys, right?

[00:51:37] Right.

[00:51:37] It feeds those good guys.

[00:51:38] So that helps to keep the gut healthier so that those bad bacteria can't get in there

[00:51:44] and fester and start an infection.

[00:51:46] An infection.

[00:51:46] Yeah.

[00:51:46] Again, that's a very holistic approach.

[00:51:48] I was thinking about more than one piece of this.

[00:51:50] We're still in the gut.

[00:51:52] Right.

[00:51:52] But more than one part of the whole process in the body.

[00:51:59] Processed correlation does not equal causation.

[00:52:01] Oh yes, because people, that's how myths get perpetuated, right?

[00:52:06] Right.

[00:52:07] If you eat something and the next day something happens, you link the two.

[00:52:11] Yeah.

[00:52:12] That's human nature, right?

[00:52:13] Right.

[00:52:14] And like I said, I wouldn't doubt that some people can have that happen.

[00:52:22] And probably more than anything, it's a lot less of the actual nuts or seeds causing that

[00:52:30] infection.

[00:52:30] But maybe they have food sensitivities where that causes inflammation and triggers it too.

[00:52:36] Great point.

[00:52:37] So I think we have to be careful with our own kind of superstitions.

[00:52:41] Yeah.

[00:52:41] That's a bit superstitious.

[00:52:42] I think we're very superstitious people where we like to draw these conclusions.

[00:52:48] And I guess it makes us feel better.

[00:52:50] Yeah.

[00:52:50] And then we don't really have to look any deeper.

[00:52:52] Right.

[00:52:52] But then the trouble with that is if you don't look a little deeper or think about it in a

[00:52:56] more holistic way, you're never really going to heal.

[00:52:59] Right.

[00:53:00] Right.

[00:53:01] Yeah.

[00:53:01] So you may be empowered and emboldened that I have the fix, but it's still not taking care

[00:53:08] of the problem totally.

[00:53:09] Love that.

[00:53:10] Well said.

[00:53:11] Well said, my friend.

[00:53:12] All right.

[00:53:14] What actually causes diverticulitis flare-ups?

[00:53:17] There is some data.

[00:53:18] We do know what could cause it.

[00:53:20] I did not know this.

[00:53:21] I do not consume processed meats.

[00:53:23] Right.

[00:53:23] I think they're bad in many ways.

[00:53:25] I've always avoided them.

[00:53:27] Yeah.

[00:53:27] That makes sense.

[00:53:28] But we actually have data that shows.

[00:53:30] Yeah.

[00:53:31] I mean, there's different things.

[00:53:33] It is going to, you know, the processed meats, you have a lot of those nitrates and things

[00:53:37] that will cause inflammation in the gut.

[00:53:39] And that's when meat got a bad name though, right?

[00:53:41] That's how like kind of veganism, vegetarianism really took off because there were studies that

[00:53:46] showed that meat causes cancer, meat causes gut problems, meat causes this.

[00:53:51] But really wasn't it the type?

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] And so, you know, we've talked about how I like to look at the blood type for the diet.

[00:54:03] It's a great time to bring this in.

[00:54:04] Yeah.

[00:54:04] So the two main blood types are type O, which is about 45% of the population, and type A

[00:54:12] is 40%.

[00:54:13] Okay.

[00:54:13] Okay.

[00:54:14] And so, you know, pretty good 50-50 there.

[00:54:18] And type O's typically do really well with the red meats.

[00:54:22] I do very well.

[00:54:23] Yes.

[00:54:23] That is how I maintain my weight and my health.

[00:54:26] Type A's tend to cause, the red meats tend to cause a lot of inflammation and might cause

[00:54:30] constipation and other things.

[00:54:32] Interesting.

[00:54:33] As we're talking about the digestive tract part.

[00:54:36] And so there have been studies in the past that looked at blood type and heart disease,

[00:54:42] and it turns out that type A's are the most likely to have big problems with heart disease

[00:54:50] and cancer, have the worst outcomes for cancer.

[00:54:53] So when you're restricting the red meats, it's helping part of the population, not harming

[00:54:59] the other part as much, as long as they're eating, you know, other types of poultry and

[00:55:03] fish and other things too.

[00:55:05] And so that's where I look at it.

[00:55:08] Yeah.

[00:55:08] So the data gets a bit skewed, doesn't it?

[00:55:10] Right.

[00:55:10] And before we know it, we have a whole movement.

[00:55:12] Exactly.

[00:55:13] And people getting really mad because your friends aren't eating the way you're eating.

[00:55:16] Right.

[00:55:16] Right.

[00:55:17] Wars have been started.

[00:55:19] Yes.

[00:55:19] Yes.

[00:55:20] But yeah, I mean, other things like smoking is a big factor known to cause inflammation

[00:55:24] and cause problems with the diverticulitis.

[00:55:27] Because of all the chemicals that we put in our cigarettes.

[00:55:29] That makes sense.

[00:55:30] Yeah.

[00:55:31] Being overweight, of course.

[00:55:33] But it all comes down, I mean, most of it comes down to bowel health and moving your

[00:55:39] bowels regularly.

[00:55:40] And that's where all of these factors, as far as the cause of diverticulosis, that's why

[00:55:46] I initially said constipation, because it's about good bowel health and moving the bowels

[00:55:52] well.

[00:55:52] And all of these other things can be reasons why your bowels would move well and why they

[00:55:58] might not be as healthy.

[00:55:59] But we get the fiber, we get the water, we eat healthy.

[00:56:02] Then usually this is all something we don't have to worry about.

[00:56:06] Love it.

[00:56:07] Love that.

[00:56:08] So let's get to our last segment.

[00:56:11] Yes.

[00:56:12] Debunking the myth that extra sugar is necessary for hypoglycemia.

[00:56:17] Right.

[00:56:17] We all think that.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:18] My blood sugar is low, so I need to eat some sugar.

[00:56:21] Right.

[00:56:21] That's what I do, Ted.

[00:56:22] I'll have to admit.

[00:56:23] Well.

[00:56:23] When my blood sugar, when I feel a little and then, but then I feel like I'm chasing it.

[00:56:28] I use that term, like now I'm going to chase it all day.

[00:56:32] The highs and lows.

[00:56:33] Glucose.

[00:56:33] So yeah, when you're in the middle of an episode, you do need to get that, you need

[00:56:39] to get a little bit of sugar to help lift it back up.

[00:56:42] So yeah, so your brain gets the glucose.

[00:56:44] Right.

[00:56:44] But we need to cut off the cycle.

[00:56:47] Yes.

[00:56:48] Okay.

[00:56:48] So, and, you know, so with that, I actually want to start with a story about, and that's

[00:56:55] actually part of why I thought about this whole episode.

[00:56:58] Oh good.

[00:56:58] Let's do a story.

[00:56:59] Yes.

[00:56:59] We had a gentleman that was helping with some work around our house.

[00:57:05] You know, he was putting in a floor and a back porch and everything, and he came to

[00:57:11] the front door near the end of the day, and he's like, man, I had just had just getting

[00:57:18] over this, you know, hypoglycemia episode.

[00:57:20] He had not been paying attention, and he was like to the point where he's putting in the

[00:57:25] flooring and he was just about passed out on the floor with hypoglycemia.

[00:57:30] And so, of course, then he finally pulled himself up, got to his truck, grabbed some Gatorade

[00:57:35] to drink it to get his blood sugar back up.

[00:57:38] And so, I told him what I tell all my patients all day long about hypoglycemia is you need

[00:57:45] to be getting enough protein in your diet throughout the day to help keep your blood

[00:57:50] sugars from bottoming out.

[00:57:52] And we'll explain that in a little bit, but I was telling this to him, and all of a sudden

[00:57:57] a light bulb went off in his head, and he's like, why doesn't any of my doctors tell me

[00:58:02] that?

[00:58:03] Oh, wow.

[00:58:03] Because all he's ever been told was, you know, keep some sugar around in case your blood sugar

[00:58:08] gets too low, and then that'll bring it back up.

[00:58:12] Instant fix.

[00:58:13] Right.

[00:58:13] Because it's pretty logical.

[00:58:14] Right.

[00:58:15] It's low, eat some, it goes high.

[00:58:17] Right.

[00:58:17] Now, just so people are clear, because I don't have type 2 diabetes, but I do feel like when

[00:58:22] my blood sugar goes a little bit low, did this man have a diagnosis of a diabetes or

[00:58:27] anything?

[00:58:27] Or is it like me just would feel the lows and the highs?

[00:58:30] Right.

[00:58:30] But that's the thing, it's not necessarily related to...

[00:58:33] Okay, just to clarify.

[00:58:35] Yeah, because there can be, you know, and it's actually better termed reactive hypoglycemia.

[00:58:39] Oh, much better termed.

[00:58:40] So, you know, it's after eating food, your blood sugar will drop.

[00:58:46] And so I like to talk about this more specifically as, you know, go back to the beginning.

[00:58:53] And one of the main purposes of food in our body is that our liver manufactures glucose,

[00:59:00] a sugar that goes into your bloodstream and feeds your cells.

[00:59:04] Okay.

[00:59:04] If you have a carbohydrate and you eat that, it doesn't take much to convert that into glucose.

[00:59:11] So you're...

[00:59:11] Chemically, it's very similar.

[00:59:13] Exactly.

[00:59:13] So it doesn't take much for your liver to break it down.

[00:59:16] Your glucose will spike.

[00:59:18] You'll burn through it quickly and your blood sugar can drop.

[00:59:21] So just think about if you have Chinese and you eat a bunch of rice, you feel full right

[00:59:26] away.

[00:59:26] And then a half hour later, you're starving.

[00:59:28] Right.

[00:59:29] Because all the carbs in that rice have been burned off.

[00:59:34] And so then your blood sugar drops and you're hungry again.

[00:59:36] Right.

[00:59:36] Because the body's like, okay, we need fuel.

[00:59:38] Yes.

[00:59:38] Yes.

[00:59:39] And so that's what happens when we eat carbs.

[00:59:44] When we eat protein, it takes a lot longer to metabolize.

[00:59:47] It's a lot more complex biochemical procedure and process.

[00:59:51] So I like to look at protein as a time-released energy source where it takes about four hours

[00:59:59] for your body to break down a source of protein into the glucose.

[01:00:03] And use it for fuel to use it for fuel.

[01:00:04] Right.

[01:00:04] Which is glucose.

[01:00:05] So if you have a combination of proteins and carbs in a meal, some of the carbs might

[01:00:11] spike your blood sugar some.

[01:00:12] But if you have enough protein, it'll keep it from bottoming out.

[01:00:15] Oh, I love that.

[01:00:16] What about fat then?

[01:00:18] I mean, it works along with all that, but I don't tend to focus on that.

[01:00:23] It's not the focus.

[01:00:23] It's not the focus when we're talking about hypoglycemia.

[01:00:26] And if you're prone to hypoglycemia, really, instead of chasing with carbs, like the conventional

[01:00:32] wisdom would be, your advice, based on science, is it's really about a daily protein consumption.

[01:00:41] Right.

[01:00:41] And most people don't think they're hypoglycemic, but I spend all day long, I would say probably

[01:00:50] 75% of my patients, when I see them, they have an energy drop in the afternoon.

[01:00:57] In the middle of the afternoon, people get tired.

[01:00:59] They want those snacks and the coffee and everything.

[01:01:02] And you taught me, too, if you're waking up at night, it could be low blood sugar.

[01:01:07] Correct.

[01:01:07] When you told me that years ago, I'm like, oh my goodness.

[01:01:11] Yeah.

[01:01:11] Never thought of it like that.

[01:01:13] That's why I'm waking up.

[01:01:15] And as soon as I increased protein, which I was, I am very reluctant to do that.

[01:01:19] It took me a long time to realize that that's the key to a lot, for me anyway, to keep maintaining

[01:01:25] energy and not waking up.

[01:01:26] Yeah.

[01:01:27] But so, you know, so that's why I said I talk about this all day long.

[01:01:32] I can see why.

[01:01:32] It's every day because I'm always making sure that when I'm seeing a new patient, you know,

[01:01:37] asking about their energy, I want to see, are they having an energy drop in the afternoon?

[01:01:42] If that's the case, that typically tells me that they're not getting enough protein at

[01:01:47] breakfast and lunch.

[01:01:48] Yeah.

[01:01:48] And you may be getting enough protein at one or the other meal, but it has to be both.

[01:01:54] I learned that the hard way too.

[01:01:56] I'm like, well, I'll just have it at breakfast and then I would get that lull or I'll just

[01:01:59] have it at lunch.

[01:02:00] That was not good either.

[01:02:01] No, no.

[01:02:02] I do both now.

[01:02:03] Yeah.

[01:02:03] And so routinely, I, you know, especially with women, I'll say, well, you know, set the

[01:02:08] goal of at least 20 grams of protein per meal.

[01:02:11] Yeah.

[01:02:11] Men can, you know, that can often be enough to get by to not have that hypoglycemia, but

[01:02:17] often might need a little bit more within the, you know, protein in their meals too.

[01:02:21] But that 20 grams of protein at breakfast and lunch is usually enough to keep that energy

[01:02:28] low away in the afternoon.

[01:02:29] Can you get that much from non-animal sources?

[01:02:35] Yeah.

[01:02:36] Yeah.

[01:02:37] So, I mean, it's a lot harder.

[01:02:39] Yeah.

[01:02:40] I mean, yeah.

[01:02:40] I mean, really, I mean, the non, the non-animal source, the main one I look at is somebody doing

[01:02:47] a protein shake for breakfast or something to be able to get some plant proteins to bring

[01:02:52] to, I mean, if you do fake meats or soy, different things like that, you can, but like

[01:02:59] say I have a lot of patients, oh, well, I put a tablespoon of peanut butter on my toast

[01:03:04] in the morning.

[01:03:05] But that's not as much protein as you think.

[01:03:07] No, you have to eat.

[01:03:08] I think I figured out.

[01:03:10] You have to eat it like at least a half cup of peanut butter to be able to get that 20

[01:03:14] grams of protein.

[01:03:15] And then you're probably way over.

[01:03:17] You have lots of fat.

[01:03:18] Lots of fat.

[01:03:19] Lots of calories.

[01:03:20] Right.

[01:03:21] Which would then contribute to being overweight.

[01:03:23] Possibly.

[01:03:29] You know, not need to eat as much later in the day too.

[01:03:32] Okay.

[01:03:32] That's fair.

[01:03:34] And that brings back another good point that I forgot to talk about in our thing about

[01:03:41] the bad cholesterol, you know, our low fat diets, you know, because that's where all of

[01:03:47] this started.

[01:03:48] Right.

[01:03:49] And so if you don't eat enough proteins and fats in your diet, you're going to eat a lot

[01:03:55] more carbs.

[01:03:56] And so that makes it so that your blood sugars are going up and down all day, all day long.

[01:04:03] And you're always trying to catch it.

[01:04:05] So somebody goes on a low fat diet to lose weight and they're trying to stick within, say, 1200

[01:04:11] calories a day.

[01:04:12] It makes it a lot harder to focus on that because their blood sugars are going up and down and

[01:04:17] they don't have as much control.

[01:04:18] Right.

[01:04:19] When you have those fats in the diet, that helps to keep you more satiated.

[01:04:25] So you don't have as much of that, those cravings.

[01:04:29] It helps to stick around a lot longer.

[01:04:32] So that's for the overeating part.

[01:04:35] Of course, you know, fats have a lot more calories per gram.

[01:04:40] Right.

[01:04:41] And that's part of the problem.

[01:04:41] Either one, then proteins or carbs.

[01:04:44] Right.

[01:04:44] Yeah.

[01:04:44] So proteins and carbs have four grams or four calories per gram.

[01:04:49] And then fats have nine.

[01:04:51] Nine.

[01:04:51] Right.

[01:04:52] So more than twice.

[01:04:53] Yeah.

[01:04:53] So that's where you do have to pay attention to the amount of fats you're eating.

[01:04:59] But if you don't get enough, then you're going to stay hungry.

[01:05:03] Right.

[01:05:03] And so in no way should anybody be confused that now we are demonizing carbohydrates.

[01:05:08] No.

[01:05:08] No.

[01:05:08] Because you need carbohydrates too.

[01:05:10] Exactly.

[01:05:10] But that's also, I think, what happens when with a lot of these myths, as we're perpetuating

[01:05:17] a myth, then we have to make, I guess all good myths have a bad guy and a good guy, right?

[01:05:20] Right.

[01:05:20] Like the mythic stories.

[01:05:22] And we have to demonize.

[01:05:23] I'm always so skeptical when anybody is demonizing a food or a food group.

[01:05:30] Right.

[01:05:30] Right.

[01:05:31] Yeah.

[01:05:31] And I mean, you have some very low carb diets that, interesting, I was talking with a couple

[01:05:38] of colleagues and there are a lot of people doing the carnivore diets where they're just

[01:05:43] mostly eating meats.

[01:05:44] Yeah.

[01:05:45] And there's actually some research showing that, you know, by doing that, you know, you

[01:05:50] can have a bump in your blood glucose also.

[01:05:55] Oh, interesting.

[01:05:56] Yeah.

[01:05:56] Because just like we were talking about the proteins, broke it down into glucose.

[01:06:01] So, you know, eating tons of protein, your body will find a way to do what it needs to

[01:06:06] do.

[01:06:06] It always finds a way.

[01:06:07] Right.

[01:06:08] Yeah.

[01:06:09] Interesting.

[01:06:10] So again, it's things for most people, unless you're doing something because you have to

[01:06:15] solve a problem temporarily and have a more strict diet.

[01:06:18] Right.

[01:06:18] For most of us across the board who aren't in a crisis, it's more like a balancing.

[01:06:25] Right.

[01:06:25] And some people might need a little bit different proportions to help them long term to maintain

[01:06:32] and feel good and everything.

[01:06:34] But yes, some of that is trial and error and figuring out what works.

[01:06:38] But again, if you're going to trial and error, you kind of have to pay attention to what's

[01:06:41] going on.

[01:06:42] Right.

[01:06:43] And a lot of people like you get that dip in the afternoon.

[01:06:46] It's a cry for caffeine, which is a drug.

[01:06:49] And sugar.

[01:06:49] Oh, sugar.

[01:06:50] Caffeine and sugar.

[01:06:51] Those are my two favorite drugs.

[01:06:53] So you give yourself some of that and then you end up the caffeine can also give caffeine

[01:06:59] affect your blood sugar, too.

[01:07:01] Like, why does if I have caffeine and I have low blood sugar, why do I feel better?

[01:07:05] Because it doesn't release catecholamines and they can kind of maybe it's an overriding.

[01:07:09] Maybe I'm totally overriding my system.

[01:07:11] I don't know.

[01:07:12] Yeah.

[01:07:12] I mean, that's one of those things that there's I don't know the exact mechanism, but there's

[01:07:19] been studies back and forth looking at, say, coffee.

[01:07:24] And it helps to balance your, you know, helps to reduce your diabetes risk.

[01:07:28] And then the next study shows it increases your diabetes risk.

[01:07:31] I don't know the exact mechanism, exactly how that works, but there's a lot more to it

[01:07:36] than what we all understand.

[01:07:37] Exactly.

[01:07:38] And that's absolutely well said.

[01:07:40] So the point being, of course, if you're craving sugar, you're craving caffeine, you need to

[01:07:45] push yourself through and or you're waking up at night, you could have a blood sugar issue.

[01:07:53] It dips in your blood sugar.

[01:07:54] Yeah.

[01:07:54] And so talking about that nighttime.

[01:07:56] So it's usually, say, two, three, four o'clock in the morning.

[01:08:00] That's when it is.

[01:08:00] And it's when it's the people that you wake up and you're wide awake and you can't get

[01:08:06] back to sleep a lot more.

[01:08:08] And it's because the blood sugar drops.

[01:08:11] And in order to fix that, your body produces more of the stress hormone cortisol because

[01:08:19] cortisol helps to pull sugar out of your cells.

[01:08:22] It increases your blood sugar, but then it also wakes up your brain.

[01:08:24] Right.

[01:08:25] Time to go.

[01:08:25] Exactly.

[01:08:26] So then your brain's awake because of that and you have trouble falling back to sleep.

[01:08:30] So I think that's such a great point.

[01:08:32] So I never let it get to that point because I have known you for so long and I'm a client

[01:08:37] and I realized, oh, that I can fix that before it got to the point where I was awake awake

[01:08:44] at three or four.

[01:08:45] Right.

[01:08:45] I was just waking up, but I can go back to sleep.

[01:08:48] Yeah.

[01:08:48] So we want to kind of like try to tune into our bodies a little bit and figure out what's

[01:08:52] going on.

[01:08:53] And that would help you, too.

[01:08:54] I think if people thought that this was a problem, I think a lot of people don't even

[01:08:58] think it's a problem to wake up at three or four in the morning.

[01:09:00] Right.

[01:09:00] It's stress.

[01:09:01] It's just the way we live and that's not everyone does.

[01:09:06] And we tend to think that just because it's typical, it's normal.

[01:09:10] Right.

[01:09:11] And it's not.

[01:09:12] But on the other hand, too, we have the opposite and people will get very stressed about their

[01:09:19] sleep.

[01:09:20] And then that makes it even worse.

[01:09:22] It's true.

[01:09:23] It's not like it's not a factor because there's always multiple factors.

[01:09:28] Yeah.

[01:09:29] Yeah.

[01:09:29] We don't want people to get stressed out about these things, but just use it as like some

[01:09:33] just some knowledge and some data about yourself that you can bring to your doctor and or

[01:09:38] prescriber.

[01:09:39] Right.

[01:09:39] Right.

[01:09:40] And one other thing that I guess we really should cover because we were talking about

[01:09:46] this reactive hypoglycemia.

[01:09:48] There's, you know, the other type of hypoglycemia would be a non-reactive, which is a diabetic

[01:09:54] that gets too much insulin and their blood sugar drops.

[01:09:57] So they're different animal.

[01:09:58] Yeah.

[01:09:59] And either way, short term, you need the extra carbs to bring up your blood sugar.

[01:10:05] But in both, you need enough protein to help keep your blood sugar balanced.

[01:10:09] So I always have to work on my diabetic patients to make sure they get enough protein.

[01:10:14] I was just going to ask you that.

[01:10:15] Yeah.

[01:10:15] Is the conventional wisdom for diabetics what?

[01:10:19] A high complex carb diet.

[01:10:21] Wow.

[01:10:22] Like 65, 70 percent complex carbs.

[01:10:25] That's a lot.

[01:10:26] Yeah.

[01:10:26] Yeah.

[01:10:27] And they really, so that's the focus.

[01:10:29] Right.

[01:10:29] Because it's a disease of sugar.

[01:10:32] So we're going to treat it with a carbohydrate, which is a complex sugar.

[01:10:35] Right.

[01:10:35] As opposed to looking at the totality of micronutrients.

[01:10:38] Exactly.

[01:10:39] Fats being satiated, protein to prevent what you just said.

[01:10:44] Because a diabetic that's always having to adjust their insulin every day is not really

[01:10:50] well controlled.

[01:10:52] No.

[01:10:52] This sliding scale stuff.

[01:10:54] I don't know.

[01:10:56] Right.

[01:10:57] Because before you know it, then I'll see the long acting insulin units up and then another

[01:11:02] thing brought in and then the sliding scale I'm giving them was two boxes of a pen.

[01:11:07] Now it's six boxes of a pen down the road.

[01:11:09] That's not a good sign.

[01:11:11] No.

[01:11:12] And that's because they're chasing it.

[01:11:15] And it is a matter of people, oh, well, I have medication so I don't have to worry about what

[01:11:20] I eat.

[01:11:20] Right.

[01:11:21] So we don't say you need both.

[01:11:23] Right.

[01:11:23] Yes, you need your insulin if you're at that point.

[01:11:25] Yes, you need your medication.

[01:11:26] But please don't forget that you can do so much with diet.

[01:11:31] Right.

[01:11:31] And when people change their diets and then they see the changes in the diabetes medication,

[01:11:39] then you need to tell your doctor doing that.

[01:11:41] Well, my doctor doesn't care about my diet.

[01:11:44] Right.

[01:11:44] Perhaps that is true.

[01:11:45] Perhaps it is not true.

[01:11:46] But at any rate, they need to be aware that something's changed so that they can help you

[01:11:52] with dosing adjustments.

[01:11:54] Yeah.

[01:11:54] So you have to tell them when you make changes in your diet.

[01:11:57] I think you have to tell them.

[01:11:59] Well, the myth really that we started with was diet has really no role in disease prevention

[01:12:06] and treatment.

[01:12:08] Right.

[01:12:08] Yeah.

[01:12:09] I mean, that's number one that in general, conventional medicine tends to very much downplay.

[01:12:15] They're not running around saying, oh, diet has no role.

[01:12:19] Diet has no role.

[01:12:20] It's not like we're hearing it.

[01:12:21] It's really a myth of what we're not hearing.

[01:12:23] Right.

[01:12:23] Right.

[01:12:24] It's kind of like something that's like an underlying understanding perpetuated by many

[01:12:31] things.

[01:12:31] Right.

[01:12:31] And it comes down to conventional medicine doesn't do diet properly, so they don't see

[01:12:39] the proper benefits.

[01:12:41] Right.

[01:12:41] And so they're not going to get the results.

[01:12:44] So obviously then diet isn't important.

[01:12:46] Exactly.

[01:12:47] Which is the myth.

[01:12:49] Right.

[01:12:49] Because diet is important.

[01:12:50] It is very important.

[01:12:51] That we agree on.

[01:12:52] Yeah.

[01:12:53] Thank you, Ted.

[01:12:54] And thanks for listening, everyone.

[01:12:57] Remember, eat a vegetable, take a walk, think a happy thought, and we'll see you next time.

[01:13:03] Take On Healthcare was created and is hosted by Ted Zuzelis and Mary Sheehan.

[01:13:08] The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and

[01:13:12] is not intended for the purpose of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease.

[01:13:16] Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider,

[01:13:21] carefully read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products.

[01:13:25] Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation

[01:13:29] or advice from a healthcare provider.

[01:13:31] If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions,

[01:13:35] please promptly call or see your healthcare provider.

[01:13:38] This podcast, including Mary Sheehan and Ted Zuzelis, disclaim responsibility for any possible

[01:13:43] adverse effects from the use of information contained herein.

[01:13:46] Opinions of guests are their own, and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility

[01:13:50] for statements made by guests.

[01:13:52] This podcast does not make any representations for warranties about guest qualifications or credibility.