Are Your Supplements REALLY A Lie?

[00:00:00] And that happens in the OTC IL2 with medications a lot of medications were changed, the labeling was changed because people were accidentally giving their kids too much and bad things were happened.

[00:00:30] The statistics almost exactly twice as many, there are 56,000 ER visits per year from acetaminophen versus 23,000 from the whole supplement industry.

[00:01:00] It's just Tylenol in everything.

[00:01:03] You think you're getting something for a cough at Estilino or a nose at Estilino.

[00:01:08] I feel like that needs to be looked at before anything else, so I'm properly labeling these things because people...

[00:01:14] The point is that they want to go after the supplement industry for being unsafe.

[00:01:20] Being unsafe, but yet we have an over the counter that's thought of as being fairly safe by the FDA being allowed people are allowed to take it on their own without a doctor's prescription or anything.

[00:01:33] It's having a lot more detrimental effects, including there's 500 deaths a year from acetaminophen. Now about half of those are purposeful deaths.

[00:01:43] Like suicide.

[00:01:44] Suicides and things but the other half are people that are just getting too much and don't realize it.

[00:01:48] Because it's in a lot of things.

[00:01:50] And I think I heard too that if aspirin were to file with the FDA today they may not put it over the counter due to the safety profile.

[00:01:57] And people take an 81 milligram aspirin because it's good for my heart.

[00:02:00] Right. Right. Right. Right. Because the front of the box is a heart on it.

[00:02:03] Right. Right.

[00:02:09] You are listening to Take On Healthcare with Ted Suzelez and Mary Shea.

[00:02:13] Ted is a naturopathic doctor who has been helping people in Northeast Ohio for over 20 years to live a happier and healthier life through natural healthcare, including dietary advice, vitamins, herbs,

[00:02:26] and other natural substances. Mary is a full-time pharmacist who also helps leaders in healthcare suffering with anxiety and depression integrate the best parts of traditional and alternative medicine.

[00:02:37] Are you someone who regularly takes herbs, vitamins, and minerals? What is influencing your purchasing decisions?

[00:02:44] Should you be skeptical of the supplement industry?

[00:02:47] Today's podcast will let you understand how the supplement industry works, how to know if you really need those supplements you purchased, and how to make sure the supplements you take are safe.

[00:03:00] Ted, when I think of like the supplement industry going wrong, I have this one image which is a little bit dated, but it's this image of the top of my refrigerator filled with a bunch of supplements that I don't remember to take.

[00:03:16] I don't know what they're for, but I think today the image is more like people go on the Instagram or the TikTok and they see somebody telling something an influencer and then there's all these boxes of supplements that are being dropped off.

[00:03:30] Right.

[00:03:31] And they don't know what they're for, what they should take.

[00:03:34] And so I think supplements are, I take them. I think they're really important, but I see why there is a lot of confusion and maybe some criticism.

[00:03:45] So this podcast we decided to address a video called the supplement industry is full of BS by Johnny Harris on YouTube.

[00:03:56] And it does provide an interesting look at the supplement industry through his perspective focuses on the lack of regulation, potential health risks and the industry's marketing tactics.

[00:04:09] So you are, you were familiar with him before this is the first I'd seen seen it. And we both watched this video and this is kind of our response and supplements are definitely in your wheelhouse.

[00:04:23] Right.

[00:04:24] I like the topic. Yeah.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:27] So, yeah, like you said, I've watched Johnny Harris's videos for quite a while.

[00:04:32] Probably since early on in the pandemic, I happened to start going on YouTube looking for something new to watch and found one of his videos and realized that it was a high production value video like a TV episode.

[00:04:45] And I only thought of YouTube as just, you know, kids putting their, you know, putting their little clips of their video games or skateboarding or whatever.

[00:04:55] And really didn't know that there was this highly produced videos at that time.

[00:05:00] And he must have had some credentials you wouldn't be interested either. What is his like background or credentials?

[00:05:06] He's a journalist.

[00:05:07] Oh, he's a journal.

[00:05:08] Yes. Okay. That makes sense.

[00:05:09] Yeah. So he's over the years. He was working for Vox for a while to do a lot of their videos and things.

[00:05:16] So he's got a lot of production there. And does a lot of good job of a lot of videos. But this one in particular sort of rubbed me the wrong way because there were a lot of things that he said that are definitely accurate and good.

[00:05:30] But some extreme views that he pulled in also partially, you know, it's, it was, you know, he framed it in this way because obviously he was looking to portray it that way.

[00:05:40] Yeah. His only experts that he talked about and actually had on there were from the FDA or, you know, Ivy League pharmacists or things like that that were giving a very much FDA conventional lens and viewpoint.

[00:05:57] Right. And I thought to myself, I kind of laughed being a pharmacist that they interviewed a pharmacist and like my colleagues don't know the first thing about supplement some do but they've educating themselves.

[00:06:07] Right.

[00:06:08] And they didn't learn it in school whereas nature pass learned it in school. That would have been the person to have on.

[00:06:14] Right.

[00:06:15] So right away I was like, oh, I just lost some credibility for me because he didn't interview the people that know the industry.

[00:06:24] Exactly.

[00:06:25] That was that was a problem for me. But I think we should like first of all define the word supplement because people use it to mean all kinds of things right.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:36] So really what I would say the best way to define supplements and dietary supplements obviously because that's what we're talking about dietary supplements is there's two different categories.

[00:06:48] The first category would be herbs and they work in a way a lot of ways work a lot like drugs.

[00:06:56] And they have a form of action that a lot of times drugs are actually manufactured trying to mimic function that an herb does so true we'll talk about that.

[00:07:08] But I would say the bigger and more appropriate category with dietary supplements has to do with different nutrients that are already in the body.

[00:07:23] And we're giving the body these nutrients to help with the heal.

[00:07:27] Yes, I think that's such a I wish there was another word because I do see such a clear difference between giving the body something that it needs.

[00:07:36] And an herb that has like an action upon the body right.

[00:07:41] Right.

[00:07:42] And that's why I would tell people too that we're on like a thyroid medication.

[00:07:45] I'm like you kind of have to look at it like a supplement your body is not making it so we're going to supplement this right the same with a type one diabetic that insulin is technically a drug.

[00:07:55] But it really is also a supplement so it just gets a little bit tricky.

[00:07:59] So I like your definition.

[00:08:02] And I guess the third category which isn't really it gets lumped in but it's not truly a dietary supplement by the law is homeopathic remedies.

[00:08:13] Oh right because they're regulated by the government set in a separate way.

[00:08:19] Yes, category and that's a whole different thing.

[00:08:21] Right. You don't need to go over there.

[00:08:23] We really don't know.

[00:08:24] So yeah when we talk about nutrients that are already in the body so we're talking about things like vitamins are really easy to understand.

[00:08:31] Yes, there are no food in everybody knows that and we know that these are essential nutrients that our body needs for all the many miraculous mechanisms.

[00:08:39] Right.

[00:08:40] Right. A lot of people understand the omega-369 fatty acids.

[00:08:45] These are essential fats that we need in our body to function properly.

[00:08:48] Correct.

[00:08:49] And amino acids so you know amino acids are the building blocks of protein.

[00:08:55] So we proteins to be able to break in some ways to break those proteins down to have these amino acid building blocks to help our body to heal enzymes.

[00:09:07] You know, pancreatic enzymes.

[00:09:08] Oh that's a good one or digestive enzymes.

[00:09:10] Right.

[00:09:11] And then you know, certain hormones are considered supplements too.

[00:09:16] Like melatonin is a hormone.

[00:09:18] Yes.

[00:09:19] But it's considered a supplement.

[00:09:20] Right.

[00:09:21] How about like things like the acidophilus and those kinds of things that are that we take to replenish our gut flora?

[00:09:28] Right.

[00:09:29] Those are supplements.

[00:09:30] Yes.

[00:09:31] Because we need those but it's a whole different, it's a little bit of bacteria that are still already in our...

[00:09:37] True.

[00:09:38] ...got or that true.

[00:09:39] Yeah, we're supplementing strains that should be in there to have a certain function.

[00:09:43] Great.

[00:09:44] So I think that that's really...

[00:09:46] You don't really see that as far as a definition anywhere but I think that that's the most distinct best way to understand dietary supplements.

[00:09:54] I agree.

[00:09:55] That's a really good way to understand it.

[00:09:57] And so to sort of take that one step further, to give you an example.

[00:10:03] So when we're talking about amino acids.

[00:10:06] So you have a couple of amino acids, L-triptophan and 5HTP or 5-hydroxy-triptophan,

[00:10:15] which are precursors to the brain chemical serotonin.

[00:10:18] Yes.

[00:10:19] So when we give one of these amino acids, it's giving the body its building blocks so that the body can make serotonin on its own.

[00:10:28] Right.

[00:10:29] And serotonin is kind of like a feel-good neural transmitter, meaning something that works in the brain to keep the mood.

[00:10:35] That's the most popular way.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:37] And a medication that used to increase serotonin would be considered...

[00:10:41] A drug would do that by not by providing the body, the building blocks to make its own serotonin,

[00:10:47] but by doing something in the brain that somehow manipulates the brains either breaking down capacity or enhances a receptor mechanism or something like that.

[00:10:58] Very different.

[00:10:59] And that is, I think a really easy way for people to understand the difference.

[00:11:03] Yeah.

[00:11:04] And to simplify that even more, I tell my patients mostly that we're giving the supplements to help the body to make more.

[00:11:12] And most of our popular antidepressants that are helping with serotonin, the SSRIs, are slowing the breakdown of serotonin

[00:11:22] to try to hold more serotonin in the nerves.

[00:11:26] But slowing down the breakdown, the elimination in the brain.

[00:11:28] Exactly.

[00:11:29] Yeah.

[00:11:30] And so they work in totally different manners, which also means that we have to be careful.

[00:11:34] We can't add both together because if you give building blocks so your body can make more serotonin...

[00:11:40] And then prevent it's breakdown.

[00:11:42] ...prevent it's breakdown, then you can get serotonin syndrome and potentially die.

[00:11:45] Yes.

[00:11:46] That is a really good point.

[00:11:48] And I, where I was going with it is that doesn't mean that if you have...

[00:11:52] Which is, I guess the same place, you are going a diagnosis of depression that you can then stop your medication and just give yourself the building blocks.

[00:12:00] Right.

[00:12:01] Because it doesn't act the same in every single person.

[00:12:03] Right.

[00:12:04] Just because you supplement with 5-HTP or ultra-deafant, which you can get over the counter, doesn't mean your body or my body will do with it what we'd like.

[00:12:12] Right.

[00:12:13] Because it's complicated.

[00:12:14] There's more things and I think we just need to make that point, just to...

[00:12:19] Neither one of us are proposing anybody do anything like that.

[00:12:22] Oh, and...

[00:12:23] We're just trying to make a point.

[00:12:24] We're trying to help people understand and define these.

[00:12:26] Exactly.

[00:12:27] That's it.

[00:12:28] And even if you are going to take these supplements, you really should be doing it under the care of a professional.

[00:12:34] Yes.

[00:12:35] Absolutely.

[00:12:36] We both agree on that as well.

[00:12:37] Even though you are free to go ahead and buy them.

[00:12:40] And that's why people end up with just a lot of things they don't...

[00:12:43] Aren't working or they say they're not working or they don't know, or they need it but we're going to break down all of that.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:51] In a couple of other good examples I think of supplements for people would be...

[00:12:56] We did touch on the digestive enzymes and most people probably don't know what that is.

[00:13:01] But people talk about enzymes a lot.

[00:13:04] Yes.

[00:13:05] So digestive enzymes are produced by the pancreas to help us to break down our foods, different types of enzymes.

[00:13:13] And so we do have dietary supplements whether they're plant-based or animal-based but still the same thing trying to give more of those enzymes to digest our foods.

[00:13:24] And there's a drug for that too.

[00:13:25] Correct.

[00:13:26] They can be prescribed to do that exact same thing.

[00:13:28] Yes.

[00:13:29] Yeah and that's where...

[00:13:30] That's the big buzzword, the EPI, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency because now they have a drug for them.

[00:13:34] Yes.

[00:13:35] So they develop a diagnosis so then they can prescribe the drug.

[00:13:40] And it's expensive.

[00:13:41] Is it?

[00:13:42] Yeah, very expensive.

[00:13:44] And then you had...

[00:13:46] Let's give some more examples of hormones.

[00:13:48] Right.

[00:13:49] You'd melatonin and vitamin D technically a hormone.

[00:13:52] Right, it's vitamin E and a hormone but yes it has both effects.

[00:13:56] Okay explain that.

[00:13:57] I didn't realize.

[00:13:58] I always think of it like as a little thing that was misnamed a long time ago.

[00:14:03] Well it has an antioxidant effects but it just does so many different things that is yes it is technically a vitamin two but it's a hormone.

[00:14:12] And how are we defining hormone?

[00:14:14] Because I bet people don't know what a hormone means.

[00:14:16] Okay, so I think of it as a chemical messenger.

[00:14:18] Definitely hormones that's the best way to define hormones.

[00:14:22] They're chemical messengers on the body and so they're relaying a signal.

[00:14:28] And so one of my favorite examples of this is talking about insulin resistance which we've talked about.

[00:14:35] Wait and things in some of our previous talk.

[00:14:37] That's right.

[00:14:38] But insulin resistance is really hard for the general public to understand.

[00:14:42] Agreed.

[00:14:43] Yes, so.

[00:14:44] And so I think this is a good place to sort of help people understand what a hormone is by also talking about that.

[00:14:51] And so my example that I give to patients is that a hormone, yes a messenger.

[00:14:57] So it's just like your Amazon delivery driver bring a package to your house.

[00:15:02] That has supplements in it exactly.

[00:15:04] And so when we're talking about insulin resistance, so the Amazon driver is bringing insulin to you know well bringing insulin.

[00:15:15] And to your body and insulin what it does is it triggers your body to accept sugar.

[00:15:22] Right, we don't want the sugar hanging out in the blood.

[00:15:24] Right does bad things in there.

[00:15:25] Yeah, I want it in the cells exactly do the energy thing.

[00:15:28] Yeah, and so insulin resistance is you're sitting on your couch watching TV.

[00:15:34] And the Amazon delivery driver well maybe it's maybe it's better that it's you know, grub hopper.

[00:15:41] Okay, okay.

[00:15:42] Somebody yeah, because Amazon's just gonna drop it on your porch.

[00:15:45] Okay, that's true.

[00:15:46] Right.

[00:15:47] Okay, we're switching the metaphor folks but it's not that big of a leap join us.

[00:15:51] So yeah, grub hub they come, rain your doorbell.

[00:15:55] Well you get up off the couch go to the door and get your food and go back and sit down and eat or whatever.

[00:16:04] But insulin resistance is more like you have some kids down the street that are doing ding and ditch.

[00:16:13] Remember that as a kid where people run up and bring doorbell and then right away hide and you open the door and there's nobody there.

[00:16:19] I'll say you have some really you know mischievous kids that keep bringing your doorbell.

[00:16:24] Eventually, you're not going to get up and answer the door every single time.

[00:16:30] So the signal like kind of loses its efficiency?

[00:16:34] Right, right because you're being bombarded with too much of a signal so you don't do it as often.

[00:16:40] So maybe every three or four times you get up to go the door and make sure that your food hasn't gotten there.

[00:16:48] Right.

[00:16:49] That's insulin resistance where our sugar levels are so high that we produce more insulin to try to regulate it but the cells stop reacting as quickly.

[00:17:03] Yes, I love that because people forget about the cells.

[00:17:07] Like just because there's something there doesn't mean it's going to get to do the thing it's supposed to do.

[00:17:12] Correct.

[00:17:13] There's other things happening.

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:16] And that's a great great example.

[00:17:18] So that's one example, you know, so like thyroid hormone.

[00:17:21] A lot of thyroid hormone works on your metabolism and helping your cells to be you know, revved up or increased your temperature, you know, all kinds of different things to stimulate your body.

[00:17:36] So I think that's a pretty good.

[00:17:38] Yeah, no, that was really good.

[00:17:40] And back to just rewind a little bit the difference between an herb and a vitamin, both classified by we're talking about government classifications as supplements.

[00:17:52] Meaning they can be sold over the over the county or anyone can go in and purchase them.

[00:17:58] And I guess it's kind of like, you know, a prescription medication being used to modify a process like we talked about like say a tour of a stand is going to go in and modify how your body metabolizes cholesterol versus an insulin which would be kind of like a supplement if you have type one diabetes.

[00:18:20] So it's a little bit like that.

[00:18:23] So I think if we should spend a little bit of time talking about like herbs as part of the supplement industry because some of them really are quite potent medicines.

[00:18:37] Right. And so a good example of herbs is, you know, and how like we talked about earlier, how a lot of drugs are created to mimic herbal functions.

[00:18:49] So an old herb called Raulfia.

[00:18:52] And now I'm remembering that from my early pharmacology days, like when I first was looking at these slides, I'm like, that sounds familiar. I had to go back 35 years to remember.

[00:19:02] Yes.

[00:19:03] Right. And so before we had prescription blood pressure medications, Raulfia was an herb that was prescribed a lot because it worked really well at lowering blood pressure.

[00:19:14] Do we know the mechanism? I don't know the exact.

[00:19:17] I think it was not like our drugs receptors on the, you know, something on a receptor doing something to the blood vessels.

[00:19:25] I think it was more like, I think it was like the ash will go on for blood pressure. Right.

[00:19:30] Like it did a lot of things in our circulatory system.

[00:19:34] Okay. And so the big problem with Raulfia is it had a nasty side effect of causing severe depression in some people.

[00:19:41] Yeah, it's a problem. Yeah, it's a problem.

[00:19:43] Yeah. And I think that that was when we're in the early drug industry, that was a motivation to produce medications to lower blood pressure that didn't have such a nasty side effect.

[00:19:56] Right. So to take a piece of it, but to discard the part of it that did this other thing. Right.

[00:20:04] It's so interesting. Yeah, sort of turned around now where we're taking the earth so that we can have less side effects and have similar functions.

[00:20:12] That's what I was thinking. Yeah.

[00:20:14] But now Raulfia, there's companies like Ayush Urbals, an Ayurvedic Indian, herbal company of some really good nature pathocdoctors that have developed extracts that don't have any of the side effects.

[00:20:29] So they did it. They did what the, you know, the drug companies wanted to do at that time just they found the pieces of it, the chemicals and it's the proper way to extract the active components to lower blood pressure without having the side effects.

[00:20:43] That's great. That's what we all want, right? We want the benefits without the risks as much as we can have that, right? Right.

[00:20:49] Right. Okay.

[00:20:50] And then also you were talking about Ashuganda.

[00:20:53] It's like my favorite. Yeah, it's one of my favorites too. Yeah.

[00:20:56] And Ashuganda where Raulfia is mostly a very specific, you know, function. I mean, we don't use Raulfia for anything but blood pressure.

[00:21:06] Okay.

[00:21:07] Where Ashuganda has so many different effects in the body and so it's one of those herbs that we call a, we call an adapted genic herb.

[00:21:18] Which means like, yeah, restore is homeostasis. Right. No drugs. Yeah. And no drug can really do that. No.

[00:21:24] Because first of all, Ashuganda, that it recognizes to personify it that there is a system where as the drugs just one thing and tend to think well the circulatory system doesn't talk to the nervous system doesn't talk to the hormonal system.

[00:21:41] And Ashuganda knows we're all talking all the time. Right. Yeah.

[00:21:45] And so I do have to, when I recommend Ashuganda to some of my patients, I do have to walk them through this a little because say we're recommending it to calm down anxiety and stress but they don't want to be too tired

[00:21:58] but they don't understand Ashuganda also can boost energy and physical endurance. In fact, there was an interesting mouse study for endurance with Ashuganda.

[00:22:10] And it was mice in water.

[00:22:13] And one group had been doing the Ashuganda. The other group was a, you know, was a control group that wasn't getting the Ashuganda and the group that had the Ashuganda could paddle a lot longer without drowning.

[00:22:26] That's amazing. And who wouldn't want that? Right. So that's where I have to caution. Like so who wouldn't want reduced stress and still feel energized? Right.

[00:22:35] That being said, we are not suggesting people run out of course and purchase Ashuganda. You say of course and I say I really think people need to remind you right?

[00:22:45] Well, because we live in a society that is so impacted by what they hear in the media. And we're trying to do media. Right.

[00:22:55] And you know, so we always say that you should purchase with caution and under the supervision of a healthcare practitioner. We're just trying to explain again what it is in the difference but by no means should anybody because of various reasons.

[00:23:11] It might not be best for your body. There may be purity concerns. There may be potency concerns which right will get into right. Yeah.

[00:23:18] But yeah, so there's so many just other interesting functions of Ashuganda. Yeah, we love it because he does help with sleep and a little interesting one that I've used with a lot of my patients that are going through cancer radiation therapy.

[00:23:33] Ashuganda actually has a lot of research behind it. When people are going through radiation therapy can help keep the healthy cells healthier and more vibrant but still allowing the cancer cells to get killed.

[00:23:48] See, to me like that is the perfect thing that needs to be then studied right?

[00:23:54] Because that's that would be such a helpful thing. Yeah, but my in my personal opinion anybody who not anybody but the people who are going through something like chemotherapy should have a naturopath to consult with for this is a really good example.

[00:24:10] Yeah, there is so much right. There's some data behind it and yeah, but I think there could be more. But I've had several patients who have been getting chemo. Yeah, well, getting the radiation therapy.

[00:24:21] And their oncologists just floored how well they breeze through their radiation therapy because we're giving them Ashuganda and some other nutrients that tend to work and help with that too.

[00:24:33] Yeah, it's amazing. People should know this. All right. So what else did we want to say about that?

[00:24:42] Oh, I think another piece of it is that things like Ashuganda herbs aren't just analogous to drugs necessarily.

[00:24:54] Right. They don't just have an active mechanism of how it works and we're talking about Ashuganda being a lot more broad.

[00:25:01] Yes, but also these herbs have nutrient qualities too. Any oxidant qualities or other nutrients that maybe we haven't even labeled and if you just give an active component for that herb,

[00:25:15] you don't get anywhere near the efficacy as giving the whole herb.

[00:25:21] Yes, it's like back in the day, I think was Deepak Trooper said taking the vitamin C out of the orange is like taking the knowledge but throwing away the wisdom.

[00:25:32] Like we don't know what else right one other chemicals are in there that enhance and in this case act in a different way.

[00:25:40] Right. Another my last point on the herbs is that unlike drugs, which you know the first drugs were released in what the 1940s or was aspirin was the first wasn't it?

[00:25:53] Well, aspirin's a little bit different but that's true because it comes from a plant initially.

[00:25:58] But anyhow, we're talking about a very short 80 maybe 80 years or so of releasing drugs and a lot of the drugs we use now have been released within the last 20 or 30 years.

[00:26:14] Yes, it was a good couple 10 years for drugs, 30 years for drugs.

[00:26:18] Where herbs, most all of the herbs that we use today have been used for centuries.

[00:26:26] And for several centuries have been meticulously documented by herbalists as to their functions and side effects.

[00:26:38] So when we talk about risks, there's a lot more information about the risks of herbs and the possible dangers than with drugs where how often do we see a drug that gets released under the market.

[00:26:54] And then gets pulled back off or gets a big black box warning because there are some side effects that they couldn't they didn't expect to happen.

[00:27:03] It's interesting. I think it's a different way of gathering data or maybe even one that used the word wisdom like herbs come with centuries of wisdom and a way to relay that information through people that knew about it to the next generation.

[00:27:19] Whereas drugs can be released have a certain safety profile validated by the government but then still they get released and then taken off because something happens in the with the general public that they didn't see in the studies.

[00:27:33] Right, yeah. It just comes down to the system.

[00:27:37] Right, but it's just yeah we've had a long time to look at these different herbs and pick the ones that are the most safe.

[00:27:45] Those are the ones that tend to get used very often even today.

[00:27:49] What do you think of this notion? I've heard people say this that on earth, on this amazing, miraculous earth and all of the things that grow that there's a solution for every ailment that's growing on earth or is that too boo-boo for you?

[00:28:03] Is that only something that people like me think is true? I mean, I think it's an interesting concept.

[00:28:09] It is and it's one of those that yeah there are so many different plants that we haven't documented that we really don't need some great stuff for us.

[00:28:17] Right, we just don't know and that's the thing is that's that's something that's very possible and feasible.

[00:28:23] We just don't know. We just don't know. Yeah.

[00:28:25] Okay, so we'll put it in that category. We just don't know. That's a nice thinking but we don't know.

[00:28:29] All right, so that was that. Okay. Back to the video and the risks that you just alluded to.

[00:28:41] The danger of supplements some things that have happened that got a lot of immediate attention that gave supplements they could made people like panic.

[00:28:51] Even to the point like we should remove them all from the market for our own safety.

[00:28:57] Yeah, so yeah, so number one in that video he highlights a statistic that there are about 23,000 ER visits from supplement ingestion.

[00:29:09] Yes, I saw that. Yeah. What he doesn't bother to say is there's also around 700,000 ER visits from drug reactions.

[00:29:19] Yep. And if you look at, you know, they don't really, you know, it's hard to, you know, look at documenting how, how that happens and why people are going to the ER and ages and stuff.

[00:29:33] But I found some other studies from US poison control, people calling poison control for because they think that there has been an ingestion that might be harmful.

[00:29:43] Okay. And around 70% of their calls for supplement dietary supplements are for patients under the age of six.

[00:29:53] Meaning the kids grabbed something they shouldn't have right well either a the kids grabbed something they shouldn't have or be the parents were giving them dosages.

[00:30:04] And appropriately, they didn't know how to dose it because they're not doing it with a professional.

[00:30:10] And that happens in the OTC I'll too with medications and a lot of medications were changed. The labeling was changed because people were accidentally giving their kids too much and bad things were happened.

[00:30:20] Right. Well, that's a, you know, the OTC is really a good example there. Yeah.

[00:30:25] Because you have, you know, acetaminophen Tylenol. And you have twice as many, you know, ER visits from Tylenol that acetaminophen as you do the whole supplement industry.

[00:30:43] And there's no cry to make Tylenol prescription right because that would be very bad for the people that make acetaminophen.

[00:30:51] Yeah. So, so yeah. So looking at the statistics almost exactly twice as many there are 56,000 ER visits per year from acetaminophen versus 23,000 from the whole supplement industry.

[00:31:08] So would that okay? Would that data be skewed by how many people take Tylenol versus how many people take supplements?

[00:31:16] Yeah, I mean a little bit but that's still a, that's a well, I remember that I would be I would say that with how many people take supplements. There's probably a lot more people taking supplements. Yeah.

[00:31:27] Then take Tylenol in everything it is like you think you're getting something for a cough at us Tylenol or right knows that's Tylenol. Right.

[00:31:35] Like I feel like that needs to be looked at before anything else or properly labeling these things because people point that's the point is that they want to go after the supplement.

[00:31:44] And then go after the supplement industry for you know that is not being unsafe but yet we have an over the counter that's thought of as being fairly safe by, you know, by the FDA being allowed people are allowed to take it on their own without without a doctor's prescription or anything.

[00:32:04] Yeah, it's having a lot more detrimental effects. I mean including there's 500 deaths a year from acetaminophen now about half of those are purposeful deaths.

[00:32:15] Like suicide suicides and things but the other half are people that are just getting too much and don't realize it because it's in a lot of things right.

[00:32:22] And I think I heard too that if aspirin were to file with the FDA today they may not put it over the counter due to the safety profile.

[00:32:30] Yeah and people take an 81 milligram aspirin because it's good for my heart right because the front of the box is a heart on it. Right.

[00:32:36] And when one one your doctor should know you're doing that.

[00:32:40] One little side note is that acetaminophen if you go to the ER because you have acetaminophen poisoning they're going to give a drug you know that is actually an acetylcystine.

[00:32:56] I remember that from back in the day there were so many when I was a little baby pharmacist and it stinks to high heaven and you put it in, you open up the liquid and you put it in the soda thing and put the stront it so people will take it.

[00:33:09] And that's an anacetylcystine now.

[00:33:11] It's a great supplement that has a lot of detox properties good for the lungs lots of different things amazing.

[00:33:16] Yeah and you can buy that over the counter yes anacetylcystine but again shouldn't be just buying it but yeah it is amazing.

[00:33:22] And recently within the last couple of years they there was a push by the FDA to pull nac off of the oh I remember that.

[00:33:31] Yeah and it was because well for one they don't like to have supplements that are very similar to a drug.

[00:33:40] Yeah that makes sense right okay which the supplement had been on the shelf before the drug and used but they were going after nac because a lot of hangover cure supplements you know had nac in them

[00:33:59] claiming that this was going to cure your hangover.

[00:34:02] Oh boy.

[00:34:03] So it was companies that were not being proper about documenting what they're using it improperly and now nac if you take it before with alcohol

[00:34:19] if you take it prophylactically it can help the liver you know with alcohol toxicity.

[00:34:27] But interestingly enough if you take it right with alcohol it can actually do more damage to the liver for some reason.

[00:34:34] Oh my goodness see this is that's again why people really need to know what they're doing in consult.

[00:34:40] Yeah.

[00:34:41] A naturopathic doctor for things like this and we'll talk about that a little bit more later about the you know sort of the claims that can be made about supplements.

[00:34:51] Yes we will get into that because that's where people were people that make supplements say things are not legally allowed to say that are true.

[00:35:01] Yeah but I wanted to get back to a couple of other interesting things like put the ER visits.

[00:35:07] Okay.

[00:35:08] And just because somebody is taking a supplement and they get scared and they go to the ER doesn't necessarily mean that it's causing harm.

[00:35:19] Oh but it's tracked as a visit that it involved a supplement so that goes into the data.

[00:35:24] Like for instance I've had two patients that I can think of that I recommended a B complex supplement that had the flesh form of niacin in it.

[00:35:37] It was a small dose is that most people shouldn't have a reaction to but they just happen to be overly sensitive to a niacin flesh.

[00:35:47] Oh look that's scared.

[00:35:48] Yes so one of the patients called our office in panic because they thought they were having an allergic reaction to it because of that flashing.

[00:35:57] Yes.

[00:35:58] And they you know so they called us right before they were getting ready to head out to the ER.

[00:36:06] And the other one was calling us actually on the way to the ER and had to let them know oh that's sorry that's a niacin flesh it'll go away within the next 20 minutes and you're going to be 100% fine.

[00:36:18] Yeah. It's not harmful but it feels bad.

[00:36:20] Yes. And I think there was a time when I was dispensing a lot of non-flesh niacin but then it wasn't really doing what the cardiologist wanted it to do.

[00:36:30] Right the non-flesh niacin doesn't really help so much with cholesterol like the flesh form.

[00:36:37] Right and then we went back to the flesh form niacin. Yeah interesting.

[00:36:43] Yeah I could see how that could make people nervous so this is like two of your patients and someone like kind of extrapolate that how many people take niacin and would get scared if that happened.

[00:36:55] And didn't have the doctor to call before they go to the ER.

[00:36:58] Right put their mind at ease and realize it's nothing that's it's not an allergic reaction.

[00:37:03] Right and you know so I guess that's you know along with that you know there are very few cases of supplements that are really implicated in long-term injury or death just from the herb.

[00:37:16] It's self-suffering itself where the pharmaceutical industry would like you to believe that well they're just not tracked well enough and there's a lot more of that happening that we just don't know about because they're not regulated well enough.

[00:37:29] That's what we were told right. Yeah and I mean I'm all for having some regulation my fear though is just like anything when politics get involved and we start to regulate something more is it slippery slope.

[00:37:43] Okay we can do this and so we want to keep on that same path where you get to company countries like Germany where in order to take vitamin C you have to get a prescription from a doctor.

[00:37:59] We don't want that. No no we want we want better regulation for the industry and we'll talk about how that looks but we want to be make sure that it's done in a way that doesn't just lead us down the way.

[00:38:12] It doesn't fringe on our freedom right to take care of ourselves yeah yeah because I guess I look at it as sort of a lose lose you know thing argument here where the medical industry doesn't train their doctors to actually understand supplements or know how they work.

[00:38:33] Right. Their side effects or anything and they want to they won't legitimize naturopathic doctors who do have the training for all how all these supplements work yet if they keep if they do this regulation and get it to where all supplements are prescription only no supplements will be sold because there's very few doctors that could prescribe them yeah that's well said.

[00:39:00] Okay so where does that contamination yeah that's a good little segue from safety right so supplements have been contaminated yeah title has been contaminated they which was handled but that it does happen yes it has happened.

[00:39:20] And I remember the of because I was around the L trip to fan situation right which actually if you want to turn out to be not well you watch the Johnny Harris video and I didn't really because you know this was.

[00:39:34] You know early mid 90s wasn't really following the industry so much that that point in time okay but evidently the L trip you know there was you know a problem with contamination of L trip to fan that was causing some deaths and other issues and that was part of that was part of.

[00:39:56] The reason for them wanting to regulate the supplement industry right and there was like a few batches I believe they were contaminated the came from a certain country.

[00:40:07] I don't even think this batch was made in America well it was the at the time the supplement industry was very much much smaller so that was probably the only supply or they could guess that yes that was actually extracting the L trip to fan from the herb.

[00:40:23] And what was it contaminated with I don't remember what they uncovered yeah but we found out that it was a contamination which happened not the L trip to fan it wasn't an overdose of L trip to fan right it was a contamination in the in the products right and I can remember there were.

[00:40:40] I think there was something like 50 or 60 deaths from it and other long term injuries injuries which yet that's a shame but it was contaminated this can happen for.

[00:40:53] Salmonella contaminated lettuce or things to even though you know anything that's regulated you could always miss something yes it's a risk for sure.

[00:41:03] And they've since fixed that and you can buy pretty clean I mean there hasn't been any issues since that one correct that was yeah it was it was off the market from.

[00:41:13] The mid 90s to the mid 2000s you know for probably at least 12 years that's a lot longer than I remember yeah right because I remember one of my professors in medical school who was a big proponent of trip to fan and yeah it was taken off the market and so for some of his patients.

[00:41:32] Help help them to sleep or you know some of the other benefits he was actually having them get a veterinary form.

[00:41:40] Oh wow so that they could actually get that supplement to actually help themselves oh my goodness but of course this was after they figured out about the contamination yeah but before they got it back on the market they went through the steps to get it back on the market.

[00:41:56] How about supplements being spiked with illegal drugs that's a more recent. Yeah yeah and yeah when we talk about this too it's really something that for most people it's not an issue it's in especially when you look at good large supplement companies these are small back room supplement companies

[00:42:24] that are doing things illegally right but in a free market they're allowed to be there right right yeah so you'll like for instance last summer I had a patient come to me and talk about this I think it was from Taiwan it was all in some kind of Asian writing you know called tapy tea or tapy tea I think it was you know pronounced

[00:42:50] and it was tea that you know people were taking and it was really helping with pain. And they loved it and I had several you know I several on this patient so we're on it and other you know patients and so when I first heard about this and this patient

[00:43:09] raving about it that her husband was getting so much relief from his pain. The first thing I do is go online because I've never heard of this yeah and the first page on Google was awarding from the FDA because they found that that tea contained the steroid dexamethasone and the anti-inflammatory peroxacam no wonder they felt so good exactly oh my goodness and that those are

[00:43:39] proxacam and dexamethasone are not allowed to be sold on this country without a prescription right right yeah and I would say that most most of the time where we see this happening the biggest thing is actually sexual enhancement supplements okay that you can see

[00:43:59] you know fairly periodically if you follow the FDA that they find a company that is sneaking see Alice or

[00:44:08] prescription medications and to her into the sexual enhancement but also a lot of weight loss in athletic performance supplements

[00:44:20] and then it different things yeah a factor in used to be over the counter but then been in a spray form for out so yeah so a fed row is an interesting herb when we talk about

[00:44:32] supplement industry and it's actually a good way to look at you know things that have been pulled off the market because this is an herb that's used in

[00:44:44] been used in Chinese medicine for years and years that was very good for helping with asthma and you know you know helping debris yeah

[00:44:53] yeah and it started getting you know on higher doses it could help give you more energy and help suppress your appetite

[00:45:04] and so people are using it as weight loss and athletic performance and with the doses that were on the label for these supplements

[00:45:14] that was fine but you know our society is sort of a more is better society yeah so there's people taking you know

[00:45:22] four or five ten times the recommended dose and then having heart attacks and dying yeah I was going to say that's

[00:45:28] cannot be good for your heart right and so it was pulled off the market late 90s or only 2000s somewhere in there probably

[00:45:36] late 90s I actually used that when I was in high school playing football it was really good to help with my athletic performance

[00:45:44] and my endurance but I didn't abuse it and but yeah the people that were having the side effects and you know

[00:45:52] impossibly dying or having heart attacks were people who were just taking ungodly amounts of it so now it's not a lot you know

[00:46:00] it's ever since then it's not been released back on the market and it probably won't be.

[00:46:04] And I think there's a chemical like that that was in the diet pills that we all took in the 80s in high school

[00:46:09] that was very similar to that was a taxidrine or just something that they also for the same reason right

[00:46:16] and it was a little bit more expensive but yeah too much of it could give you cardiac problems so it happens in the OTC I'll

[00:46:22] too. Right yeah are we going to talk about how do you pronounce cratum?

[00:46:28] Yeah you know about this the kids know about this I don't know anything about this so I don't know what's on about it either

[00:46:36] you know cratum is actually it's an herb that's already been banned by the FDA so

[00:46:44] Okay where does it grow like what is it what is it native to okay yeah like I don't even know I don't know it's not important

[00:46:50] okay you know it's it's one of these herbs that has but it gets a lot of like that's what you we prop this up to say the supplement industry as a disaster

[00:46:59] that's what I hear that right okay yeah and it's you know but the FDA has you know already banned it okay

[00:47:08] but just like marijuana in states where marijuana isn't uh isn't legal it's never stopped people from getting marijuana

[00:47:18] That's true it's done another herb so it's different with herbs that's true as far as FDA control when you can grow

[00:47:26] something in your home and sell it or create a little Etsy account or whatever to sell these things

[00:47:34] as opposed to a drug where it takes an awful lot more sophistication to right you know to chemically

[00:47:42] create a drug and then sell it on the open market very true so you'll get things like cratum that you know you can find

[00:47:50] although I did what's it supposed to do so I don't even know that so it's an herb it has it has properties where it binds to opiate receptors in the brain

[00:48:02] which yeah that's a clear area where okay it's not going to be legal right schedule those we they have addictive properties

[00:48:11] right get very concerned and we should yeah but then it also seems to stimulate serotonin and dopamine receptors

[00:48:18] oh wow so you get yeah some stimulant effects but also pain relieving effects or different things

[00:48:24] and so people can feel all good sounds like a win-win to it right the problem is

[00:48:32] and but with it as far as fatalities with this herb everything I could find is most fatalities people were taking other cough

[00:48:44] serbs or other opiates or things along with it so who knows how much is safe to take or what not it's never been studied well enough

[00:48:53] because it's you know it really shouldn't be legal oh got it but also you're not going to find this on Amazon

[00:49:00] or are you sure I'm going to do a search right now you I love I did it yeah a couple of weeks ago when I was looking up

[00:49:08] create them to prepare for the episode and I couldn't find it that's good that's good news all right well what about

[00:49:16] and what's it was this in the video to personal stories yeah I have such a problem with that yeah personal stories

[00:49:25] they sound good they sell they sell things right they sell a good thing good things and bad things they sell

[00:49:32] because we are naturally people that want to help other people week we we share right right like oh well this helped me then you should try it

[00:49:40] yeah and nobody says we'll hear the 15 steps that got me to make this decision and maybe I they'd even hired a

[00:49:47] Nature Pathetic Doctor and they had done this and that but you should take it you can circumvent all of that

[00:49:52] just take it you'll be just like me right no two people are the same and I just don't like it as a

[00:49:59] marketing ploy because it's yeah it's not a good marketing ploy it will it is a good

[00:50:05] but yeah but it's not it's not accurate you know it's you know it's you know you can't substitute

[00:50:13] people's testimonials for good science and research that is a sentence right there

[00:50:20] you wait a minute let's say that again you can you can't supplement substitute people's

[00:50:28] testimonials for good science and research that's it end of podcast that's great that is that is the

[00:50:34] sentence to take but people you think you can right because the story is so much more engaging

[00:50:39] right because what would I rather do here's success story about how you turned your life around

[00:50:43] with this stuff in a bottle or way through this data and research right and I say I don't think it's

[00:50:48] a it's a choice between these two I know you hire a Nature Pathetic Doctor that knows about it

[00:50:53] that's how you get the information first of all by an expert and then also what's going to benefit

[00:51:00] you right right and also make sure to watch our first episode that we released of this podcast

[00:51:06] did your doctor yeah social media has become the new medical expert because we talk about this

[00:51:10] in great detail about waiting through all of that yes okay where are we going with this

[00:51:16] oh personal story right where we started where are we going okay yeah so in the video they

[00:51:23] talked about lion's main in that lion's main is a mushroom and it has some good cognitive benefits

[00:51:29] and there I mean there are definitely some good professional companies that have lions

[00:51:34] main in supplements and it has a good safety profile overall but they were highlighting

[00:51:41] you know people that had bad experiences or there was some kind of website devoted to people

[00:51:46] that had bad experiences okay with this herb okay this mushroom and so it's one of those

[00:51:53] things that yeah people can have bad reactions to anything whether it's you know I mean for

[00:52:01] me what I look at in the most likely scenarios are going to be either you know it's a plant

[00:52:08] that you can have an allergic reaction to pretty much anything true you know and but the other

[00:52:14] thing is what were the what was the quality of this product was it you know was it contaminated

[00:52:20] and that was what was causing the side effects for all these people not that it was the actual

[00:52:26] herb causing the problem right and that's just unknown no exactly okay but that's where taking

[00:52:34] testimonials and personal experiences and saying look how the supplement how dangerous the supplement

[00:52:40] is someone I know took this and they got for bit died right well I'm definitely going to avoid

[00:52:47] that because I don't want to die right right seeing or going into it a little bit more it's the

[00:52:53] same thing yeah of course it's right it's you know it's what one of those things that really

[00:52:59] made me frustrated about that Johnny Harris video because he's trying to push a more scientific

[00:53:06] view of doing everything yes on the other hand going the total opposite direction and trying to

[00:53:13] smear the supplement industry by giving some testimonials yes I had a problem with that too yeah you

[00:53:19] can have it both ways yes yes yes yes okay what else did he talk about are we were going to talk

[00:53:25] about melatonin such a hot topic it is it's you know the last couple of years even they put it for

[00:53:32] the kids right like they make the little things for the kids with the melatonin I'm like my goodness

[00:53:37] people are just out there buying it I did have a few years ago of many patients whose children were

[00:53:44] prescribed it I felt so much better about that because I could check the dose and but then

[00:53:51] people could just buy it and give it to their kids right right so yeah melatonin in general is well

[00:53:58] first it's a hormone that's produced from the pineal gland at the base of the brain and it

[00:54:03] tells it's it's it's the main thing is that it works on your circadian rhythm your day night cycle so

[00:54:10] it's a hormone that's produced you around bed to you know it increases near bedtime and

[00:54:16] throughout the night and healthy people and it decreases as you get towards morning you know for when

[00:54:23] you wake up right opposite of the stress hormone cortisol which spikes right after right

[00:54:28] around the time you wake up and it goes to its lowest level right before bed so the two of those

[00:54:33] work on your circadian rhythm together interesting people I don't know the people know that right but

[00:54:39] anyhow so melatonin is very helpful for that if you're not producing enough right okay well

[00:54:46] and it can be used it can be used for different things or can be used like a medication yeah like to

[00:54:51] sleep right even if you are quote unquote producing enough right but also it can be used for

[00:54:58] change of season or jet lagger things because by actually you know by when you use say all

[00:55:06] often do for somebody a week's worth every night taking before bed and it can reset that internal

[00:55:12] clock it can yeah so it doesn't have to be every night no it can be just to reset that internal

[00:55:18] clock so that's quite amazing yeah it is it can be great that way and for some people it can be

[00:55:25] can just be part of what they need to help them to fall asleep on a nightly basis and get a more

[00:55:30] restful sleep yeah sleeps incredibly important it's also I've used it with you know there's a lot

[00:55:37] of research in the past for cancer patients that high doses of it usually 20 milligrams is the

[00:55:44] dose that's recommended that actually has antioxidant effects to actually slow when a

[00:55:51] verse tumor growth in some people are those are in vivo studies like with people I would yeah

[00:55:57] just was wondering like those people super super tired although I had patients that were

[00:56:03] prescribed up to that many milligrams by a doctor and that was just enough to help them fall asleep it's

[00:56:09] yeah well I've had I've had several patients that many patients over the years that I've used

[00:56:14] high doses melatonin for that in cancer patients and you know has benefits haven't really had

[00:56:22] the daytime sleepiness and you know one of the big things that everybody worries about with

[00:56:28] melatonin is that it's going to stop you from producing your own internal melatonin but I found

[00:56:33] that I can have patients taking high doses for five or six years or more and go off of it

[00:56:40] and they still their bodies pick up right where it left off and it never they never have trouble

[00:56:45] sleeping that's so interesting that's so different than like vitamin D you'd have to

[00:56:48] kind of keep taking it to keep your levels up but well the vitamin D is something that our

[00:56:54] bodies don't produce that's true yeah so we need to know it could be a hormone we don't

[00:56:59] do it but we do produce melatonin and the thinking was in that I could see some logic there

[00:57:04] that if you gave it to the body the body would be like well you don't need me to make this anymore

[00:57:08] it's a thyroid hormone when you produce when you supplement a full dose of synthroid

[00:57:14] or thyroid medications over time the thyroid will stop working because it doesn't

[00:57:20] need to produce thyroid hormone so you will see people that make sense that because

[00:57:25] there's that feedback mechanism with the thyroid that they maybe need more research on that

[00:57:30] melatonin that's fascinating but anyhow so with this whole issue with the risks

[00:57:36] over the years has been in children for melatonin okay and so we have a couple of different

[00:57:41] pieces of that for one is there are a lot of melatonin gummies or different things that are

[00:57:47] tasty so kids could if they're left out kids could overdose because they eat a bunch of these

[00:57:54] gummies on their own yeah there's also parents that are giving these by themselves

[00:58:00] and don't know proper dosing because they didn't tell their pediatrician right they just

[00:58:04] right yeah and but so there's been a couple of studies looking at this the first one

[00:58:12] that I could find was in June of 2022 a report released by the CDC looking at 10 years

[00:58:20] the previous 10 years of time where there were 287 admissions to the ICU

[00:58:28] five requiring ventilators and two deaths from melatonin oh wow okay over 10

[00:58:34] year period and I couldn't find really any specific information in you know

[00:58:42] these kind of CDC reports just give you the overall numbers it doesn't delve into

[00:58:47] specific cases so you can look at what you know those two deaths and the five

[00:58:52] more about that exactly yeah I did find another study that was published just a

[00:58:57] few months later in the journal of analytical toxicology in October of 22 where

[00:59:04] in I think North Carolina and they were looking at you know seven suspected cases

[00:59:10] of melatonin causing deaths and five of the seven were children five months or

[00:59:17] last most of them were two or three months old and our bodies will don't even produce

[00:59:22] melatonin until after three months to develop our circadian rhythm and that's where

[00:59:29] you know well infants you think about they sleep off and on all day at night when

[00:59:34] they're really young and it's not till certain time where they

[00:59:37] don't like the sun and the the triggering the melatonin they don't have that they

[00:59:41] don't have that and so looking at this study there were like I said five

[00:59:47] of the seven were under five months most of them two or three months old

[00:59:51] and the other two were I think two and three years old but out of these

[00:59:57] cases there was only one that looked like pretty pretty much that it was very

[01:00:06] clearly very clearly straight line yeah tone and caused exactly because this case

[01:00:12] well in in own still only somewhat because this case was a three month

[01:00:18] the oral you know three month old infant who had a twin and the mother had been

[01:00:24] dosing them both eight to ten times a day with five milligrams of melatonin

[01:00:29] which is crazy you wouldn't even you would never give adults that much melatonin

[01:00:34] in a day right but these poor little kids were getting that and one of them

[01:00:40] happened to die and their blood level of melatonin was 1400 nanograms per

[01:00:47] mill liter now the other cases that we looked at that were highlighted in that

[01:00:52] study out of those seven you know that one was 1400 nanograms per mill

[01:00:57] liter the next highest was 460 quite so quite a down and then 170 82 73 10

[01:01:07] and three nanograms per milliliter so you see you know that one was the one

[01:01:13] that was most evident though okay they were really overdosing luckily the other

[01:01:17] twin didn't die but the other cases looking at them most of them had some kind of

[01:01:25] viral infection or covid then or reason you know just before couple at least one

[01:01:34] maybe two of them the cases there were unsafe sleeping arrangements where

[01:01:41] parent one was where parent was sleeping with the two three month old child on a

[01:01:47] couch and one of the one of the possible links there was listed as as fixation

[01:01:54] which makes sense that the parent accidentally smothered the child and then a lot

[01:02:00] of them had some kind of genetic or other physical anomalies too so your

[01:02:05] point is there oftentimes the headline is all that we are allowing to our brain

[01:02:11] right and we don't realize that they're confounding factors there are other

[01:02:15] things and it's not that we're making light of any of that no it's just to

[01:02:19] simply say that in the world we live in and the way we're been kind of like

[01:02:24] condition to think right tend to just take something be it a story of

[01:02:28] something that worked great or a story worth something tragic happened

[01:02:31] right and that's it for our information right so there are a lot of different

[01:02:36] pieces to what makes a good quality

[01:02:40] supplement but it's up in the yes so first you want to make sure that it

[01:02:45] actually contains the actual act of ingredient so right but how do you

[01:02:51] but how would I know that well we'll talk about that I want to cover

[01:02:55] okay just the basics okay so what you want to do now is just to find

[01:02:59] what quality controls what quality control yes it has what it says it has

[01:03:05] right probably it doesn't have contaminants correct and yes so it has

[01:03:12] what has the active ingredients that are claimed on the label in the proper

[01:03:16] dosing oh yes right it has it's free from contaminants and you know and

[01:03:25] it's you know it's the same from batch to batch those are great things

[01:03:29] consistency right yeah I don't want to worry that okay this is and that isn't

[01:03:33] because they've not done the proper stuff so when you look at steps the

[01:03:37] the industry in you know in the differing quality control processes a lot of

[01:03:43] companies will say for instance that it has the actual active ingredient so

[01:03:51] company orders Oshoganda from their supplier and they get a brown powder

[01:03:59] that labeled Oshoganda at a certain dosage and face to assume that that's

[01:04:05] what they got they don't actually test it to see themselves to verify and

[01:04:12] that's how some of these companies save a lot of money and can offer a cheaper

[01:04:17] product because they didn't have to any testing oh my goodness okay so yeah in

[01:04:22] order to really know you want to test the product and make sure that it has

[01:04:27] the proper dosage of the active ingredient and test it to make sure that

[01:04:34] there are you know for a battery of contaminants that are known to be in

[01:04:40] that supplement that they're not in it right and and so with that like

[01:04:47] one of my my gold standard for a company is a company called vital nutrients

[01:04:52] and they've been around since around the early 2000 2000 2001 somewhere

[01:04:58] in there and they they were the first company that really started testing

[01:05:06] every single batch so they would test the wrong ingredients when they came

[01:05:10] in to verify that it was the right ingredient and what potency it had you know

[01:05:17] so that they could adjust the amount of powder that they put in the capsule

[01:05:22] so that you'd had what was on the label they also were the first that were

[01:05:26] really concerned about contaminants and testing for a broad battery of

[01:05:32] contaminants to make sure that they're getting up your product and so if they

[01:05:38] so they would test the wrong ingredients and if it wasn't up to the standard

[01:05:42] they're going to kick that out and try to find another supplier that did have

[01:05:46] the proper quality control right so that they could give a good quality product

[01:05:52] they also go above and beyond most everybody else and for extracting a lot of

[01:06:00] the active constituents in different vitamins and other supplements you need

[01:06:04] certain solvents chemical solvents and they are one of the few that actually

[01:06:10] test to make sure that those solvents aren't still in the end product because

[01:06:14] I think they could be yeah which would be a contaminant so they test for that too

[01:06:19] right so I was you know when I when they first came about I remember being at a

[01:06:25] conference in probably about 2003 and they were making a big stink of this

[01:06:31] you know conference because all the other companies are saying oh there's no

[01:06:37] way they're doing all of that testing well because they not only were they doing

[01:06:41] internal they were actually using an outside lab to do all the testing to make sure

[01:06:46] that they're not fludging the numbers wow that was and at the time

[01:06:50] they were all the other supplement company said this can't be done

[01:06:54] they wouldn't be able to afford to do that it's cost prohibitive yeah so they just

[01:06:58] didn't believe it was being done correct so then why should they have to do it

[01:07:01] it can't be done right right and it's funny because I was at their booth at this

[01:07:06] conference when somebody else came back to the owner and actually

[01:07:10] Rick leave and asked him about it and Rick is a pretty neat guy

[01:07:14] and he's very calm roll chill you know at all these conferences he's usually

[01:07:20] wearing a Hawaiian shirt and so he looked at this guy he said yeah it is

[01:07:26] really cost prohibitive you know we you know last year we did about

[01:07:30] four million dollars in sales and we spent eight hundred thousand dollars on

[01:07:35] testing wow yeah and that was as a new company getting started

[01:07:41] now I mean they well several years back they've he sold the company to you

[01:07:47] know a bigger company but but yeah he was really the pioneer in quality control

[01:07:53] he was a N.D. and a pharmacist oh wow I remember you talking about him

[01:07:59] so his whole thing was that supplement industry wasn't doing good quality

[01:08:05] control yeah that he couldn't count on the results with his product for

[01:08:09] patient right and and that's what pharmacists are always saying well I don't

[01:08:13] want to know anything about that part of the pharmacy the over the counter

[01:08:17] supplement aisle because I because they're not regulated so I don't want to know

[01:08:20] anything about it right right right and so looking at you know the

[01:08:27] product is really good and I want to try to figure out how how we can

[01:08:33] know the end consumer can know good products it's a lot harder I would say

[01:08:39] the number one thing is get your supplements recommended by an

[01:08:43] each of our doctor who has done that research and understands the

[01:08:47] companies and knows the quality control and knows that

[01:08:51] that the product isn't over priced either because I I balance that out

[01:08:56] I want to make sure that it's of the highest quality but if I have a couple of

[01:09:00] companies that have very similar quality control but ones significantly cheaper

[01:09:06] I'm going to do that for my patient to get them yes do better where

[01:09:10] nice of you but like the vital nutrients most of their products or

[01:09:14] the product price is still in line with all of the other companies so sometimes even

[01:09:20] it's not that they're passing on the cost of all this extra quality control right

[01:09:24] right yeah and there are a couple of different organizations that you can look

[01:09:29] at to for understanding quality control you know it's well nature-made you see their

[01:09:39] commercials and they talk about I was just going to talk about the nature

[01:09:42] made commercials recommended by pharmacists yeah apparently because

[01:09:45] they their usp certified okay so that's a good thing yeah that means a third

[01:09:50] party they're being certified that it's all the base there the quality that you

[01:09:59] mentioned is there exactly but there the way there is is done is like a lot

[01:10:07] of you know there's several a lot of supplement companies can claim good quality

[01:10:12] control but they do what's called skip lot testing were they're not testing every

[01:10:17] single batch and so you know the thought is it well we're getting from the same

[01:10:23] supplier it should be the same from batch to batch and lot to lot but if you're

[01:10:29] not testing every batch you you can always get an outlier that does have

[01:10:33] contaminants or isn't the right ingredient and it gets missed true so and I

[01:10:39] would say that pretty much every company that I've looked at when their

[01:10:44] usp certified yeah they're like their nature made and stuff where they

[01:10:51] don't they might be they might have what's claimed on the label but it

[01:10:57] might be a cheap not really good quality product to begin with so you get a

[01:11:04] multi-vitam from nature made yes and it's going to have forms of the

[01:11:09] vitamins that are the cheapest and least active too so yeah so there's a you

[01:11:16] know so I mean the formula matter to yeah it's yeah so you do want quality

[01:11:20] control and make sure that it has what it says on the label it doesn't have

[01:11:24] contaminants and consistent from dose to dose but then you also have this whole

[01:11:28] other piece of there's different forms of these supplements some might be a lot

[01:11:33] better for a person than another it might be much better utilized in the body

[01:11:37] wow that's a whole other level it is it is and I think it's too much for

[01:11:41] people to try to understand right and yeah there are a couple of other

[01:11:45] organizations NSF is another one seen that on some labels yeah even over

[01:11:52] the counter and the grocery shop they have they have a specific sports

[01:11:57] certification to where you know people in professional or maybe even

[01:12:03] college sports if they're going to take supplements they can only take

[01:12:07] supplements that are NSF salt certified that's where I've seen that so they know

[01:12:12] that it doesn't contain the contaminants or any

[01:12:16] drugs yeah another source for the end consumer that they can have a

[01:12:25] better idea is a website called consumerlab.org yes we're familiar with that

[01:12:32] actually is pharmacist so consumer labs is a company consumer labs.org is a

[01:12:37] company that does a lot of quality control testing to help then consumer know

[01:12:44] if the product is you know better quality or not you do have to pay for a

[01:12:50] subscription to it I think it's fifty or sixty dollars a year.

[01:12:55] And then you get access to all their data right right so that's something

[01:12:59] that people can look at and use to get a better idea of whether this product is

[01:13:05] you know good and safe right makes sense alright our next topic is

[01:13:11] regulations I guess we're talking about regulations alright so we wanted to

[01:13:20] cover current regulations because I think there's sometimes becomes an

[01:13:26] idea that it is in totally unregulated industry. It is regulated it is

[01:13:32] regulated differently than drugs obviously a drug has to go through

[01:13:37] something different and that's why they have to put on the label to not

[01:13:41] not not not regulated by the FDA what's the phrase supplements have on it

[01:13:46] not evaluated these claims have not been evaluated by the FDA correct okay so

[01:13:51] I think that's very confusing for people what does that mean so you can

[01:13:56] have you know there are claims on a product to give the end consumer a

[01:14:01] basic idea of what is for so from all the tone and it's going to say it's for

[01:14:05] sleep right that's true you don't want just a label that says melatonin right

[01:14:09] it could be for anything right but you can't say it cures in some

[01:14:13] yeah exactly and that's the big difference is that you can't sleep just so

[01:14:17] you have a basic idea because bad things can happen if you don't have a basic

[01:14:21] idea right so that's a good thing but these these supplement companies can't

[01:14:25] be making claims right right all right so they can give a basic idea of what is

[01:14:30] yeah they can't say it is secure of disease right because only drugs cure

[01:14:35] diseases correct right or that's the law we I don't really believe that but

[01:14:42] that is what the law says right right yeah okay so what else do you want to

[01:14:50] talk about oh more about the regulations yeah so yes the 1994 dietary

[01:14:57] supplement health and education act I was just trying to think where I was

[01:15:01] in pharmacy school when that came out oh I was just like a little baby

[01:15:06] pharmacist I guess because I graduated pharmacy school in 1990 okay and so I didn't

[01:15:11] learn about it in school but I do think I remember the state board telling us

[01:15:17] about things that they were confiscating and there was some things with that

[01:15:21] yeah right and so when we talked about the ill-tripped a fan thing

[01:15:25] that's what spawned on that regulation I see that brought us to 1994

[01:15:31] dietary supplement health and education act correct because they because of

[01:15:36] that because of the triptophan deaths from the contamination the FDA was

[01:15:43] looking at really greatly regulating the industry the entire supplement

[01:15:48] industry yes and so then the supplement industry came together to lobby for

[01:15:55] better and the people yes people to the people to yeah right so it created it

[01:16:01] created a away for supplements to be able to be on the market and have not

[01:16:08] the same regulations as the FDA regulations yes and so a lot of if you like in

[01:16:16] that video there was a representative from the FDA talking about how

[01:16:21] supplements you know can be you know put on the market without any FDA

[01:16:26] oversight right and that's so that they're sort of it's not that's a grey area

[01:16:35] because anything that so if you have a new ingredient so a special in

[01:16:42] it is up a new herb or some other ingredient meaning something that that

[01:16:46] hasn't been released before oh like say you discover an herb exactly okay

[01:16:50] okay so you have to send you have to send petition to fill out an

[01:16:57] application to the FDA letting them know that you're going to be releasing this

[01:17:02] gonna be making a product out of it yeah give it research selling it to show

[01:17:06] its efficacy and safety and everything to you do have to show some research

[01:17:10] yes not like I found this growing under this tree right okay right and so

[01:17:15] that give the FDA the ability to then do more research to decide whether

[01:17:20] this is truly a dietary supplement that should be allowed on the market okay

[01:17:25] yeah where most dietary supplements are in a list of ingredients that have

[01:17:32] already been okay right and so like they're generally recognized as safe or

[01:17:37] is that a different kind of classification no there's I don't remember

[01:17:40] that yeah just but okay but so that's where we've seen them before they're

[01:17:44] already on the market they're in supplements exactly okay you can create a new

[01:17:48] formula with several different ingredients you have to start from scratch right

[01:17:52] okay but you you can release that without any FDA oversight okay so you can

[01:17:58] create a whole new formula with different supplements that have already been

[01:18:04] approved okay without having to go to the FDA and file for that start from

[01:18:10] scratch because we know these ingredients have already been on the market right

[01:18:13] okay so unlike a prescription drug where they're all they're all brand new

[01:18:20] they're all brand new exactly that's how you get the patent that's how you get

[01:18:23] the money that's how right they're all brand new yes and there's also when

[01:18:28] you talk about there's a big difference in what you can do for research too

[01:18:34] because with the drug it's patented nobody else can sell it yes so you have

[01:18:41] all you have some time so you have some time to make up your money for that

[01:18:44] multi-billion dollars worth of research right where if you have a supplement

[01:18:49] say an herb or something that other people can grow yeah then you don't

[01:18:54] have the whole market cornered you can spend tons of money research and lose

[01:18:58] your shirt so nobody's going to put that same level but there's also not

[01:19:03] the same risks because like we said earlier most of these herbs that we've

[01:19:08] been looking at have been out for hundreds of years being used and

[01:19:14] scrutinize looked at and the other segment of the dietary supplement

[01:19:21] industry are nutrients that are all ready in the body true so yeah so you

[01:19:28] can look at dosing and right it's a new it's a novel chemical that we're

[01:19:34] going to test to do something good for the body and we're going to go through

[01:19:38] the different kind of channels correct right that makes sense actually

[01:19:42] that's probably the most sense that that whole thing is made and I get very

[01:19:47] confused by it when I'm trying to explain things to people about to be

[01:19:52] just really neutral and honest about safety profiles of drugs versus

[01:19:56] supplements right and they are different and how they're different and how

[01:20:00] they come to market and how they're evaluated and the steps that they have

[01:20:06] to go through to get to your shelf the shelf back here behind me or the shelf

[01:20:11] out there right right and I think for the over the counter medication

[01:20:16] if you have a new medication which really all that you look all the over the

[01:20:21] counter medications are similar in that they all have the same chemistry it's

[01:20:25] just different formulations of the there's no new chemistry that's coming

[01:20:29] over the counter well in their drugs that were most of them were all

[01:20:33] prescribed first and then over years we decided the safety profile was

[01:20:38] enough that we could just go ahead and move it right and we can argue that

[01:20:41] too that's a whole different argument and whether or not people should be

[01:20:45] able to you know in a way it's similar should people be able to freely

[01:20:49] shop in the supplement aisle on one hand should people be able to freely

[01:20:54] shop open market can purchase in the OTC aisle right over the counter

[01:20:58] drugs I mean you can't say one is safe and one's not and back that up with

[01:21:03] enough data really to make it so if you're going to say we've got to pull

[01:21:06] these then you really do have to pull the over the counter drugs right

[01:21:10] I mean if your argument truly is about safety yeah I'm not sure it is I

[01:21:16] think it might be about money everything's about money yes it's all

[01:21:20] about that okay so anything else we wanted to say about quality

[01:21:23] regulations I think we covered all of that yeah I think we did two

[01:21:30] a supplement has to file with the FDA the ingredients you did a really good

[01:21:35] job I think going over all of that was there's something about self

[01:21:40] regulation that he said that had to be addressed was he implying that

[01:21:45] there is no self regulation the supplement industry but you made that

[01:21:49] point there are supplement companies like the one you mentioned that not only

[01:21:53] do they regulate themselves but they hire third parties to do the

[01:21:56] regulation to take themselves out of it right and so but that comes down

[01:22:00] to understanding the different companies and understanding quality

[01:22:05] control so that you can make an educated purchase right that

[01:22:10] there of course there aren't everybody does have to somewhat

[01:22:14] self regulate but the companies that are going to have the best

[01:22:18] products and make the most money are the ones that do much better quality

[01:22:22] control and have much better products that are going to be consistent

[01:22:27] and without contaminants which is great for people to know right

[01:22:31] right that you're taking a supplement that doesn't have wildly

[01:22:35] different levels of the different nutrients that it claims

[01:22:39] and I think what people don't know also is the FDA allows for some generic

[01:22:44] manufacturers to veer from the milligrams right people say 7%

[01:22:48] seven or nine okay so when it comes to medications like your thyroid

[01:22:53] medication leave of the rock scene if the batch from this

[01:22:57] generic manufacturer is 7% over the allowable allowance from the FDA

[01:23:03] yeah but then you switch generics and this generic company just happens

[01:23:08] to be 7% under the allowable amount from the FDA you have a 14%

[01:23:13] variation in your body right when it comes to something like a thyroid can

[01:23:17] make a huge difference for you it's kind of like when the women some

[01:23:21] women would say this I don't like this generic brand of oral contraceptives

[01:23:25] and we say oh it gay you know yeah there is no difference there

[01:23:29] there is right there allowed some difference in people can be sensitive

[01:23:33] to small changes right and I think people just don't realize that the FDA

[01:23:39] does allow that to for generic drugs and if they didn't drugs would be

[01:23:43] cost prohibitive there there could be no generics so there is going to be

[01:23:47] a little bit of variation that is allowed in that industry as well

[01:23:51] okay I think one more thing that I just thought of that I wanted to talk about

[01:23:55] is when we talk about regulation of different supplements

[01:24:01] and the FDA's role they do pull different you know over the years

[01:24:07] they have pulled different supplements off the market

[01:24:11] yeah that's true and not necessarily for cause of you know

[01:24:17] for the public health like for instance there's a supplement

[01:24:23] called phenibute that is a form of the brain chemical GABA

[01:24:27] that has been in a supplement form I used it

[01:24:31] well a lot with patients because it worked with great anxiety

[01:24:35] and sleep and you know about this yeah and so it worked really well

[01:24:39] but about I don't know four or five years ago

[01:24:43] the FDA decided that it really shouldn't be a dietary supplement

[01:24:47] and because the way it was originally created was

[01:24:55] it was originally created as a Russian anxiety medication

[01:25:01] so it was created as a drug originally

[01:25:05] and so now when you look at phenibute and how it was

[01:25:11] typically being used it was much closer to a

[01:25:17] you know a true physiological supplement

[01:25:21] than say a benzene azopene which is used for sleep and anxiety

[01:25:25] right so yeah they both worked on GABA receptors

[01:25:29] but for the phenibute you had to use hundreds of milligrams

[01:25:35] where you know for say you know Xanax you know you can use a half a milligram

[01:25:41] or something yeah it was very low dosage

[01:25:43] and I didn't really see patients have trouble with addiction

[01:25:51] that people most of the time people could get off of it fairly easy

[01:25:55] after they didn't need it and without that same addictive properties

[01:25:59] as the the benzene azopene and so in way I was using it with my practice

[01:26:07] and using with patients is it was similar to other forms of GABA supplements

[01:26:13] that were on the market which were still chemically recreated also

[01:26:17] only worked a lot better but because phenibute was created

[01:26:23] as initially as a drug in another country

[01:26:27] they decided that it couldn't be sold as a supplement here

[01:26:31] what a very unique reason yeah yeah and

[01:26:35] but there was some abuse of it too there was

[01:26:39] because where I would you know the supplement

[01:26:43] companies that produced good quality supplements for it

[01:26:47] there was about I'm there was usually most of the companies

[01:26:51] would say about 900 milligrams was the max dose

[01:26:55] okay you know per day and but there were people that were taking

[01:27:01] thousands of milligrams every four hours

[01:27:05] oh my goodness and yeah they were experiencing

[01:27:07] like limitless drug type of facts where they you know just felt amazing

[01:27:13] and could think clearly and all this stuff

[01:27:15] and they're buying it over the counter like it is

[01:27:17] yeah well oh online

[01:27:19] they're buying online oh yeah

[01:27:21] but then after a certain period of time

[01:27:23] these people because they were taking so much

[01:27:25] they crashed and they crashed hard

[01:27:27] oh my yeah so again it comes down to

[01:27:31] making sure that things are being taken

[01:27:33] and the proper doses yes back to that safe you know that safe to take

[01:27:37] right right right right

[01:27:39] yeah I did not know about that

[01:27:41] that's kind of too bad that somebody can't do something with that

[01:27:45] to allow it to be available

[01:27:49] what else about quality control

[01:27:53] did we want to say

[01:27:55] I think that covers it

[01:27:57] okay yeah all right

[01:27:59] all right and then you're you already talked about the resources for checking supplements

[01:28:05] yes oh what about how do I know I need a supplement

[01:28:08] I think that was such an interesting point that he said

[01:28:12] like people are buying things they don't need people are wasting their money

[01:28:16] wow we can't just a simple blood test

[01:28:18] I can let you know if your deficient or not

[01:28:20] exactly but there's not

[01:28:22] well there's not

[01:28:24] a simple inexpensive readily accessible for all of it

[01:28:28] right

[01:28:30] you know there is

[01:28:32] yes you did where say something like vitamin D

[01:28:36] yeah that's the blood test is pretty easy pretty accurate and now your insurance will cover it

[01:28:40] right it was not long ago that you had to pay out a pocket for a simple vitamin D

[01:28:44] vitamin D level test right maybe it was expensive to do I don't know

[01:28:48] now when you look at other readily available tests

[01:28:52] I find that they're not so useful like

[01:28:56] why well say like B12 test is done frequently B12

[01:29:00] B12 and B12 both of those are done very frequently

[01:29:04] yes so you know if you need D you know if you need B12 right

[01:29:08] very simple it's going to show low you go for like any other thing you're getting test in your blood

[01:29:12] it's going to show low so easy but in general when you get blood work done at a doctor

[01:29:16] you're not getting B and C and

[01:29:20] micronutrients unless you're on TPN total parental nutrition

[01:29:24] you have no idea what your levels these other things are

[01:29:28] they're good yeah so that B12 test yeah there are four different forms of B12

[01:29:34] and our body sake okay so there's two active forms

[01:29:36] methylcobalamin which is the most commonly known that when I know there's also another

[01:29:40] active form called adenosylcobalamin which is a lot more used

[01:29:44] in the mitochondria to help make energy that seems like an important one

[01:29:48] it is okay and then we have the cyanocobalamin which is the cheap form

[01:29:52] that's in a lot of supplements yeah seeing that on the list

[01:29:54] and hydroxycobalamin which is another one that's a lot more expensive

[01:30:00] form but the cyanocobalamin and the hydroxycobalamin aren't active

[01:30:06] so what is the blood test you get at your doctor measuring all four together

[01:30:10] oh all four together so this number you're seeing is actually represented of a four little guys

[01:30:16] right some of which are very helpful and some of which are less helpful

[01:30:20] oh my goodness and I think that's why in you know in conventional medicine and it's

[01:30:26] becomes standard to use the cyanocobalamin for a supplement because

[01:30:32] it's the one that helps to boost the B12 level the most blood test

[01:30:36] but it's not the most active right and so a lot of people can have trouble

[01:30:40] converting it into the active forms which is why you can build up

[01:30:44] because you're giving you're giving it and if you're not using it to make the

[01:30:48] forms it just builds up and this goes back to my thing we don't treat a piece of

[01:30:52] paper we treat a patient right so look at your levels look at your levels

[01:30:56] whatever we're talking about it's not necessarily the only thing that's indicative

[01:31:00] of what's happening in your body right you could have a high level of B12

[01:31:04] well in your blood yet still be deficient in the active forms

[01:31:08] that's a problem yeah so so simple

[01:31:12] how to get a blood test that's a great example so for them for the

[01:31:16] methylcobalamin which is you know the most widely looked at active form

[01:31:20] okay so there is another specialty test

[01:31:24] called methylmalonic acid that you can get it from a doctor

[01:31:28] well they know that okay well their most doctors aren't going to know that okay

[01:31:32] I was gonna say it's it's available from you know quest diagnostics and lab core

[01:31:36] and those kind of labs in your blood in your blood yes

[01:31:40] that the methylmalonic acid is a compound

[01:31:44] that is highly dependent on you know methylcobalamin

[01:31:48] to get broken down in the body so a high level of methylmalonic acid

[01:31:54] would suggest that you're deficient in the methylcobalamine

[01:32:00] you know vitamin it's very complicated I know

[01:32:04] but that's so good to know yeah and so you know so there are more and more

[01:32:08] of some of these specialty tests but you got to know

[01:32:12] right task for it yeah and what to do with the

[01:32:16] okay so then you maybe you do ask for it then does the doctor know what to do

[01:32:20] with that when or is in it's probably not going to get covered under your insurance

[01:32:24] so you're gonna spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on these tests

[01:32:28] that you don't know for sure how to look at it

[01:32:32] the doctor doesn't know how to interpret it

[01:32:34] yeah so then you've spent money on something that's not going to be very useful

[01:32:36] right let's say took it to you right but even with that

[01:32:40] like there are companies like one of the best known is called spectrosel

[01:32:44] and they do a wide variety of vitamin and mineral

[01:32:48] assays and a single blood test okay that's interesting yeah

[01:32:52] okay no as a naturopathic doctor in Ohio can you order that

[01:32:56] no okay so I mean but but it's you know it's a

[01:33:00] $500 test it's a lot it is but you get what do you get

[01:33:04] from that what what information about your body would you get from that

[01:33:08] well let you know if you're severely deficient in

[01:33:12] any of those different which may be worth it and you know

[01:33:14] maybe right but it's it's not I haven't seen a lot of benefits because it still

[01:33:20] doesn't give us an idea if you have optimal amounts

[01:33:24] for your body there's a whole other thing yes so there's a difference between

[01:33:28] being deficient and being optimal right

[01:33:32] so when we look at the RDA for vitamins and you know

[01:33:36] vitamins and minerals yes so you're looking at

[01:33:40] the bare minimum the bare minimum

[01:33:42] the bear minimum and not give you like scurvy

[01:33:44] exactly so yeah so 60 milligrams of vitamin

[01:33:48] C per day is needed so you don't get scurvy it's very different

[01:33:52] it doesn't have a level right it doesn't tell you

[01:33:54] how much vitamin C you need to be fully healthy

[01:33:58] it just tells you in order to not get scurvy you need 60 milligrams a day

[01:34:02] right right wow yes so

[01:34:06] then to me it seems like there's no simple

[01:34:10] test no they can tell me if I am at

[01:34:14] optimal levels right anything

[01:34:18] I mean those tests could help yes but they're not the

[01:34:22] answer right and I don't like when something is presented to be

[01:34:26] so simple right and and it's not

[01:34:30] no and it brings me more like when you talk about

[01:34:34] over the last 10 years we're talking a lot more about

[01:34:38] genetics oh that's all they're right

[01:34:42] like the empty HFR gene which is what again

[01:34:44] I can't remember the actual

[01:34:46] no so it's a what's the floor why would I get that

[01:34:50] why would I test myself for that so conventionally

[01:34:52] just looked at by

[01:34:54] obstetricians because people that have

[01:34:58] genetic variants are more likely to have

[01:35:00] miscarriages or birth defects

[01:35:02] oh okay that's a good reason okay

[01:35:04] yeah but it's because

[01:35:06] this enzyme that that empty HFR gene

[01:35:10] makes it helps to convert folate into the

[01:35:13] methylated active folate so

[01:35:16] you know we talk about folic acid

[01:35:18] all the folic acid isn't

[01:35:20] you know folic acid is a chemical form of

[01:35:24] folate that's created to put in supplements and

[01:35:28] everything but it's not you know we want to talk about

[01:35:30] folate as the actual vitamin you know

[01:35:34] the actual vitamin and

[01:35:36] depending on the research you look at

[01:35:38] somewhere between 20 and 40 percent of the

[01:35:40] population have some kind of variation in this

[01:35:44] MTH of our gene so that would be very important

[01:35:46] to know right and would you want if you were a

[01:35:50] child-bearing agent you wanted to have kids you'd want to know but also

[01:35:52] it's important for a lot of other things

[01:35:54] like like the methyl folate is

[01:35:58] important for our brain chemistry to make and

[01:36:01] break down different brain chemicals it's

[01:36:04] important for inflammation in the body

[01:36:06] for liver detoxification

[01:36:08] for hormone production so there's a

[01:36:12] energy production as a big thing

[01:36:14] so there's been a lot of studies with

[01:36:16] chronic fatigue syndrome that

[01:36:18] these people that are really

[01:36:20] debilitated with chronic fatigue syndrome

[01:36:22] and fibromyalgia both yeah

[01:36:24] that there's studies looking at

[01:36:26] they tend to much more likely to have this MTH of our gene

[01:36:30] where they're not getting the active form of folate no matter how much they

[01:36:34] so they take the folate but the body can't convert it

[01:36:36] enough yes so then if you

[01:36:40] say you have chronic fatigue syndrome and you had that test and you did

[01:36:42] realize that was true then you would give

[01:36:46] a different you would give what's

[01:36:48] up lament then well there's methylated folate

[01:36:50] supplements so yeah so it can all get

[01:36:54] it's very confusing for the blood test

[01:36:56] yes very confusing but also helpful to know

[01:37:00] that these things exist and that you could go

[01:37:04] down that path right and there's also

[01:37:06] the more we know the more we realize we don't know

[01:37:10] with all of these things yes always

[01:37:12] yeah always with that

[01:37:14] and another another important thing to look at when we're talking about

[01:37:18] vitamins and minerals

[01:37:20] in all of the supple all

[01:37:22] the supplements that are things that are in the body

[01:37:26] is we're not always using them

[01:37:30] to supplement a deficiency

[01:37:34] sometimes because of our genetics

[01:37:36] yes to compensate different things we're using it

[01:37:38] more in superficial physiologic doses

[01:37:42] to help the body to heal so it can be

[01:37:46] given at a lot higher dose than

[01:37:48] what you need to just supplement a deficiency

[01:37:50] to actually help the body to heal wow

[01:37:52] which is in a totally different area

[01:37:54] and something that wouldn't be attempting on your own

[01:37:56] right so a good

[01:37:58] conventional example is you have a lot more

[01:38:02] neurologists now prescribing

[01:38:04] 400 milligrams of riboflavin

[01:38:08] for migraine patients

[01:38:10] yeah the the riboflavin along with magnesium

[01:38:14] and the you know the thought is that it helps

[01:38:18] with the mitochondria to make energy and the brain to help

[01:38:22] circumvent the migraines to help reduce migraines

[01:38:24] it's amazing

[01:38:26] yeah and so people aren't to you know this isn't too

[01:38:30] they're not to be right they're not deficiency

[01:38:32] we're just using it as opposed to the drugs which would have side effects

[01:38:36] right and expenses associated

[01:38:38] and often to circumvent different

[01:38:42] genetic variances or other

[01:38:44] maybe we don't even know about exactly

[01:38:46] yes exactly oh that's so interesting

[01:38:48] so I like to when I you know think about this

[01:38:52] you know obviously there's a lot of things that we don't know

[01:38:56] and but I would say that

[01:38:58] when we look at supplements

[01:39:00] a lot of a lot of conventional doctors will

[01:39:02] poop who vitamins supplements

[01:39:04] for one because maybe they're they've never

[01:39:06] taken something that's good quality

[01:39:08] and it actually in the actual dosage

[01:39:10] but very true

[01:39:12] you know they probably you know most

[01:39:14] I would say most people

[01:39:16] if you can get through medical school

[01:39:18] and put yourself through

[01:39:20] the rigors of residency

[01:39:22] and 100 hour shifts or different things

[01:39:26] you have to have a certain constitution

[01:39:28] to get through that

[01:39:30] and so those people probably would

[01:39:32] be much more mature

[01:39:34] so naturally they're wired for it

[01:39:36] right and they're much less likely

[01:39:38] to need that extra intervention

[01:39:40] yes so I like to I like to look at it as

[01:39:42] or there's about a third of the population

[01:39:44] that probably really can benefit

[01:39:46] a lot from different supplements

[01:39:48] and get their you know to be given them

[01:39:52] and to really help their body to heal

[01:39:54] and a lot of people that are having a lot more chronic

[01:39:56] illnesses you have another third

[01:39:58] that it can help some

[01:40:00] but just you're not going to see as quite

[01:40:02] as much benefits and then you have a third

[01:40:04] of people that they have really great genetics

[01:40:06] and there I'd like to liken it

[01:40:08] to the today show when

[01:40:10] I can't remember what his name was

[01:40:12] not a broker that's the only one

[01:40:14] I know and the one before that

[01:40:16] will have Scott

[01:40:18] oh yeah and he had the people

[01:40:20] that turn 100

[01:40:22] and I missed that

[01:40:24] I know and

[01:40:26] so he would you know he'd go through this list of people

[01:40:28] that turn 100 and a lot of them would be talking about their

[01:40:30] reasons why they've lived this long

[01:40:32] healthy life

[01:40:34] and it was always bacon and gin

[01:40:36] and cigarettes

[01:40:38] well it was it's half and half

[01:40:40] half they smoked every day

[01:40:42] they had some alcohol

[01:40:44] or the other ones that said

[01:40:46] I lived 100 because I never drank

[01:40:48] or smoked a day in my life

[01:40:50] yes and again

[01:40:52] that's kind of like the testimonials that we were talking about before

[01:40:54] like oh well if that's what that person did

[01:40:58] who I know nothing about except I see their picture

[01:41:00] and this is what they're telling me

[01:41:02] and that could be true or not true

[01:41:04] but it so much makes up a person

[01:41:06] and I look at that

[01:41:08] and I you know yes that's

[01:41:10] just

[01:41:12] that's just their testimonial

[01:41:14] and it's not like we talked about earlier

[01:41:16] it goes back to what we said about testimonials

[01:41:18] you can't just say well this person did or didn't

[01:41:20] do that or anything

[01:41:22] because there's so many things you don't know

[01:41:24] what you're saying you don't even know the genetics

[01:41:26] but I look at that as sort of

[01:41:28] just a broad view

[01:41:30] of some people

[01:41:32] have really good genetics

[01:41:34] and they can get away with doing whatever to their body they need

[01:41:36] and they're still going to look

[01:41:38] along fairly healthy, happy life

[01:41:40] and a lot of other people

[01:41:42] we're not so lucky

[01:41:44] we have genetics where we have to work on

[01:41:46] a lot harder

[01:41:48] so we have to work a lot harder

[01:41:50] to feel good

[01:41:52] and stay healthy and then the ones in the middle

[01:41:54] it's kind of like in the middle ground

[01:41:56] there's some variation

[01:41:58] the third rule

[01:42:00] maybe you need to know where you are

[01:42:02] and I think there's clues to that

[01:42:04] but if you really want to know

[01:42:06] your genetics

[01:42:08] there's certain things that you can test

[01:42:10] certain things you cannot

[01:42:12] when it comes to anything

[01:42:14] that you want to know

[01:42:16] or what drug you should take

[01:42:18] or what kind of supplement

[01:42:20] that you may need

[01:42:22] or not need or need to be optimal

[01:42:24] and to go back to the beginning

[01:42:26] we never intended for this podcast

[01:42:28] to be kind of like a blow by blow

[01:42:30] counter

[01:42:32] whatever disagreed

[01:42:34] disagree with that

[01:42:36] Johnny Harris

[01:42:38] the supplement industry is full of BS

[01:42:40] it just sparked in us

[01:42:42] something that we both

[01:42:44] have been passionate about

[01:42:46] for me I want freedom to choose my supplements

[01:42:48] and you are very much in the supplement

[01:42:52] business and that you

[01:42:54] recommend a lot of them

[01:42:56] we both

[01:42:58] very passionate about quality

[01:43:00] purity integrity

[01:43:02] of products and we went over that

[01:43:04] that's not so simple

[01:43:06] people don't understand the nuances

[01:43:08] it works it's not just like the supplement

[01:43:10] industry is totally unregulated

[01:43:12] it's the wild wild west

[01:43:14] like you said

[01:43:16] and that drugs are so tightly regulated

[01:43:18] that there's never any problem

[01:43:20] with them

[01:43:22] it's much more complicated than that

[01:43:24] as with your own body

[01:43:26] there's not a simple blood test

[01:43:28] that's cheap and that is going to give you every answer

[01:43:30] that you ever wanted to know

[01:43:32] what else did we cover

[01:43:34] we covered so much

[01:43:36] definitely this was our take on it

[01:43:38] our take on the supplement industry

[01:43:40] yeah and I think that we

[01:43:42] gave people a lot of good information

[01:43:44] and I will include a link to this

[01:43:46] Johnny Harris video

[01:43:48] so you can watch

[01:43:50] on your own to see what

[01:43:52] he talked about and if there are things

[01:43:54] that we didn't cover

[01:43:56] that you want more answers about

[01:43:58] let us know

[01:44:00] writing the comments so that we can

[01:44:02] redo do another video of this

[01:44:04] and be able to answer some more of those

[01:44:06] yes that's great so we're going to provide links

[01:44:08] I think we need a good sign off

[01:44:10] and I would like our sign off to be

[01:44:12] what I used when back in the day

[01:44:14] when I would give flu shots

[01:44:16] and then my advice to people was always

[01:44:18] eat a vegetable, take a walk, think a happy

[01:44:20] thought so that we can all agree

[01:44:22] that's good advice for everybody

[01:44:24] and thanks for listening

[01:44:26] until next time

[01:44:38] we look forward to sharing more content with you

[01:44:40] soon thanks for listening